Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadow_Viper 08-27-07, 11:55 PM	While looking at the base entry for the Elven Hound(Page 189 of Races of the Wild) for use as my Ranger's(Level six) animal companion, and disecting it's skills(into ability modifier, ranks, and misc modifier) for use with an advanced character sheet, I discovered that the Elven Hound seems to have alot more skill points than it should(13 total) at 2 HD. It's entry is as follows. Elven Hound Medium Magical Beast Hit Dice: 2d10+2(13 hp) Initative: +3 Speed: 50 feet Armor Class: 17(+3 Dex, +4 Nat) touch 13, FF 14 BA/Grapple: +2/+5 Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d8+4) Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d8+4) Space/reach: 5ft/5ft Special Attacks: - Special Qualities: Immune to Sleep, low-light vision, resist enchantment, scent, sprint Saves: Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +1 Abilities: Str 17, Dex 17,Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 8 Skills: Balance +7, Hide +7, Jump +15, Listen +5, Spot +5, Survival +2*, Swim +6 Feats: Improved Natural Attack(Bite), Track Racial Skill Bonuses: +4 to Balance, Hide, Jump and Swim, +2 Racial Bonus to Spot and Listen. (Think that's all that's possibly needed) Now when disecting(sp) the skills up into ability modifier, ranks and misc modifier I came up with the following. Ability Modifier - Ranks - Misc - Equals Balance(Dex): 3 - 0 - 4 - 7 Hide(Dex): 3 - 0 - 4 - 7 Jump(Str): 3 - 8 - 4 - 15 Listen(Wis): 1 - 2 - 2 - 5 Spot(Wis) 1 - 2 - 2 - 5 Survival(Wis) 1 - 1 - 0 - 2 Swim(Str) 3 - 0 - 4 - 7 So it seems that at level 2(2 HD) the Elven hound has a total of 13 skills points. Still a bit confused with monster skill point per level, not sure if I understand it correctly. But so far my understanding is(now this is for magical beast): (2+Int modifier, minimum 1) x4(at first HD/Level) (2+Int modifier, minimun 1) Now from my understanding, adding his Int Modifier(-4) would reduce his skill points to -2, except he gets a minimun of 1. So it would be for first HD 1x4=4, and he'd only get 1 skill point for his second HD, bringing his total skill points to 5, if I've done this correctly. But yet it seems he somehow has 13 skills points. O.o Also why is Swim listed as 6 when it adds up to 7?
UnrelentingHoror 08-28-07, 01:25 AM	It could just have alot of inherent bonuses. In fact it may not even have ranks in swim, it could be flat bonuses.
Merestil Haye 08-28-07, 06:05 AM	There is another problem in the skill list, and one that should give you a clue to your error. The Cooshee, being a 2HD creature cannot, ever, have more than five ranks in any skill. Therefore there is something else going on with the Jump skill modifier. Maybe identifying that will reconcile the skills. Pruning down the stat block to the relevant parts : Elven Hound Medium Magical Beast Hit Dice: 2d10+2(13 hp) Speed: 50 feet Abilities: Str 17, Dex 17,Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 8 Skills: Balance +7, Hide +7, Jump +15, Listen +5, Spot +5, Survival +2*, Swim +6 Racial Skill Bonuses: +4 to Balance, Hide, Jump and Swim, +2 Racial Bonus to Spot and Listen. Still a bit confused with monster skill point per level, not sure if I understand it correctly. But so far my understanding is(now this is for magical beast): (2+Int modifier, minimum 1) x4(at first HD/Level) (2+Int modifier, minimun 1) Now from my understanding, adding his Int Modifier(-4) would reduce his skill points to -2, except he gets a minimun of 1. So it would be for first HD 1x4=4, and he'd only get 1 skill point for his second HD, bringing his total skill points to 5, if I've done this correctly.That is correct - the hound has five skill points, no more. Also why is Swim listed as 6 when it adds up to 7?Don't ask me. Assume someone mistyped here and the modifier should be +7. It won't break the creature will it? Where were we? Oh yes. Going through the list of skill modifiers, we can reconcile Balance, Hide and Swim without needing to add any skill points, and Spot, Listen and Survival if we assume the first two skills get 2 skill points each and 1 point into Survival. That just leaves explaining the fact that Jump has a modifier 8 points higher than we can account for. Fortunately, the explanation is found in the Jump skill.Your Jump check is modified by your speed. If your speed is 30 feet then no modifier based on speed applies to the check. If your speed is less than 30 feet, you take a -6 penalty for every 10 feet of speed less than 30 feet. If your speed is greater than 30 feet, you gain a +4 bonus for every 10 feet beyond 30 feet.The creature's speed is 50' therefore it has a +8 bonus to it's Jump skill modifier. 3 (Str) +4 (Racial) +8 (from speed) =15.
Shadow_Viper 08-28-07, 09:23 PM	Thank you Merestil! :D Learned something new about the jump skill, looks like I need to read through the skills more carefully heh.