Empower with Mage Armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Empower with Mage Armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheDarkSecret
04-05-07, 12:39 PM Can this feat be applied with Mage or Greater Mage Armor?
Tempest Stormwind
04-05-07, 12:41 PM Can this feat be applied with Mage or Greater Mage Armor?

*sigh* Yet another rules question that can be answered by reading the rules. All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.

Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. An invisible but tangible field of force surrounds the subject of a mage armor spell, providing a +4 armor bonus to AC.Do you see any random/variable numeric effects in Mage Armor? (hint: No.)
StruckingFuggle
04-05-07, 12:41 PM No, it cannot.

Empower Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit

All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.

Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. An empowered spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

There really should be no comma between variable and numeric. Since the AC bonus is a fixed sum, you can't increase it through empower spell.

A quick and easy question is, "could you maximize it?" ... if you can't maximize it, you can't empower it, either.
runestar
04-05-07, 01:26 PM Technically yes, just that you get no benefit.:P
Crimson_Concerto
04-05-07, 01:28 PM Can this feat be applied with Mage or Greater Mage Armor?

. . . Did you even read the feat before asking this?
ShinAkuma2
04-05-07, 03:42 PM Technically yes, just that you get no benefit.:P

True, you could blow a 3rd level slot for Empowered Mage Armor...There's just no reason to do so, especially since you could just as easily prepare a regular Mage Armor in that slot.

But if it makes you happy...
3DJutsu
04-05-07, 03:49 PM True, you could blow a 3rd level slot for Empowered Mage Armor...There's just no reason to do so, especially since you could just as easily prepare a regular Mage Armor in that slot.

But if it makes you happy...

Hell why empower it? go for the gusto, Heighten that punk spell all the way to 9th level. Higher levels mean it glows more...or something.
Sigma34561
04-05-07, 04:42 PM there is a 3rd level spell called greater mage armour. it costs like 10g in stuff but provides a +6 armour bonus.
3DJutsu
04-05-07, 05:22 PM there is a 3rd level spell called greater mage armour. it costs like 10g in stuff but provides a +6 armour bonus.

No more material component, it changed in Spell Compendium.
MCage
04-05-07, 08:57 PM if you need more armor from the spell take some argent savant levels, one of their abilities gives force spells (which both MA and MAG are) which give an AC bonus do i think +2 higher so MAG give like +8.

One of these days ill post things when im at home so i can check before i start typing.
3DJutsu
04-05-07, 11:21 PM You are correct, at 2nd level Argent Savants gain +2AC from force effects that provide them.
TheDarkSecret
04-09-07, 10:14 PM Thanx for the kind respond…I wasn’t ’cause I’m french…sorry to bother U:(
texanhick20
04-09-07, 11:02 PM work towards abjurant Champion..

2 levels argent savant,
5 levels Abjurant savant (complete mage)

with normal mage armor, you have an ac bonus of +11, with greater mage armor, it beefs up to 13, your shield spell gives you a +11 bonus, and if you cast I believe the spell Draconic skin, it'll be a +10 bonus, for a total ac bonus of +34 :)
StruckingFuggle
04-09-07, 11:19 PM If you've already got levels in Argent Savant, you'll want to grab at least the third level of it after finihshing Abjurant Champion (not Savant, Champion :)).
texanhick20
04-09-07, 11:20 PM woops thaks for the save`
Raveni
04-10-07, 12:00 AM work towards abjurant Champion..

2 levels argent savant,
5 levels Abjurant savant (complete mage)

with normal mage armor, you have an ac bonus of +11, with greater mage armor, it beefs up to 13, your shield spell gives you a +11 bonus, and if you cast I believe the spell Draconic skin, it'll be a +10 bonus, for a total ac bonus of +34 :)

I think that you are misunderstanding what the Abjurant Champion's ability does. It only works on Abjuration spells. It does not work on Mage Armor because it is a Conjuration spell. It does not work on Dragonskin because it is a Transmutation.

Don't worry, it's such a common mistake, that the designers have the sample character using Mage Armor instead of Shield too.
texanhick20
04-10-07, 12:08 AM Actually there has been arguements on both sides of the fence about Mage Armor.

I'm in the camp that for Abjurant Champion, Mage Armor (and Greater Mage Armor) is concidered an abjurant spell.

You're right that Dragon Skin is a Transmutation spell. I missed a step. There's a spell (i think in the draconomicon) called scintillating scales. It's an abjuration spell that reduces your natural armor by half rounded down, and gives you a deflection bonus equal to half your natural armor bonus rounded down.

so, with a +5 natural armor bonus from dragon skin, you would get +2 natural armor and +7 deflection bonus :)
Willie the Duck
04-10-07, 12:10 AM So common that the standard interpretation is that the sample character is more accurate than the PrC text, since it's hard to understand why there would be a PrC class feature that would only effect one core spell.

Of course, I now expect a full on "what is official" debate straight into the sewer of forumland.
Raveni
04-10-07, 12:54 AM So common that the standard interpretation is that the sample character is more accurate than the PrC text, since it's hard to understand why there would be a PrC class feature that would only effect one core spell.

Of course, I now expect a full on "what is official" debate straight into the sewer of forumland.

Sorry, I won't get into that debate... I'll just agree that it is hard to understand.
:)
Jaxgaret
04-10-07, 03:26 AM Man, are we back on this Abjurant Armor ability again?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061113a

Also, the ability is called Abjurant Armor. Why in the nine hells would it effect Conjuration spells?

Before Ask Wizards ever addressed this issue, that was my thought on the subject.

If the Wizard/Sorcerer in your game wishes to research/know a houseruled abjuration version of Mage Armor, go right ahead. That version of Mage Armor will work fine with the Abjurant Armor ability. But it is a houserule.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheDarkSecret 04-05-07, 12:39 PM	Can this feat be applied with Mage or Greater Mage Armor?
Tempest Stormwind 04-05-07, 12:41 PM	Can this feat be applied with Mage or Greater Mage Armor? sigh Yet another rules question that can be answered by reading the rules. All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half. Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. An invisible but tangible field of force surrounds the subject of a mage armor spell, providing a +4 armor bonus to AC.Do you see any random/variable numeric effects in Mage Armor? (hint: No.)
StruckingFuggle 04-05-07, 12:41 PM	No, it cannot. Empower Spell [Metamagic] Benefit All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half. Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. An empowered spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level. There really should be no comma between variable and numeric. Since the AC bonus is a fixed sum, you can't increase it through empower spell. A quick and easy question is, "could you maximize it?" ... if you can't maximize it, you can't empower it, either.
runestar 04-05-07, 01:26 PM	Technically yes, just that you get no benefit.:P
Crimson_Concerto 04-05-07, 01:28 PM	Can this feat be applied with Mage or Greater Mage Armor? . . . Did you even read the feat before asking this?
ShinAkuma2 04-05-07, 03:42 PM	Technically yes, just that you get no benefit.:P True, you could blow a 3rd level slot for Empowered Mage Armor...There's just no reason to do so, especially since you could just as easily prepare a regular Mage Armor in that slot. But if it makes you happy...
3DJutsu 04-05-07, 03:49 PM	True, you could blow a 3rd level slot for Empowered Mage Armor...There's just no reason to do so, especially since you could just as easily prepare a regular Mage Armor in that slot. But if it makes you happy... Hell why empower it? go for the gusto, Heighten that punk spell all the way to 9th level. Higher levels mean it glows more...or something.
Sigma34561 04-05-07, 04:42 PM	there is a 3rd level spell called greater mage armour. it costs like 10g in stuff but provides a +6 armour bonus.
3DJutsu 04-05-07, 05:22 PM	there is a 3rd level spell called greater mage armour. it costs like 10g in stuff but provides a +6 armour bonus. No more material component, it changed in Spell Compendium.
MCage 04-05-07, 08:57 PM	if you need more armor from the spell take some argent savant levels, one of their abilities gives force spells (which both MA and MAG are) which give an AC bonus do i think +2 higher so MAG give like +8. One of these days ill post things when im at home so i can check before i start typing.
3DJutsu 04-05-07, 11:21 PM	You are correct, at 2nd level Argent Savants gain +2AC from force effects that provide them.
TheDarkSecret 04-09-07, 10:14 PM	Thanx for the kind respond…I wasn’t ’cause I’m french…sorry to bother U:(
texanhick20 04-09-07, 11:02 PM	work towards abjurant Champion.. 2 levels argent savant, 5 levels Abjurant savant (complete mage) with normal mage armor, you have an ac bonus of +11, with greater mage armor, it beefs up to 13, your shield spell gives you a +11 bonus, and if you cast I believe the spell Draconic skin, it'll be a +10 bonus, for a total ac bonus of +34 :)
StruckingFuggle 04-09-07, 11:19 PM	If you've already got levels in Argent Savant, you'll want to grab at least the third level of it after finihshing Abjurant Champion (not Savant, Champion :)).
texanhick20 04-09-07, 11:20 PM	woops thaks for the save`
Raveni 04-10-07, 12:00 AM	work towards abjurant Champion.. 2 levels argent savant, 5 levels Abjurant savant (complete mage) with normal mage armor, you have an ac bonus of +11, with greater mage armor, it beefs up to 13, your shield spell gives you a +11 bonus, and if you cast I believe the spell Draconic skin, it'll be a +10 bonus, for a total ac bonus of +34 :) I think that you are misunderstanding what the Abjurant Champion's ability does. It only works on Abjuration spells. It does not work on Mage Armor because it is a Conjuration spell. It does not work on Dragonskin because it is a Transmutation. Don't worry, it's such a common mistake, that the designers have the sample character using Mage Armor instead of Shield too.
texanhick20 04-10-07, 12:08 AM	Actually there has been arguements on both sides of the fence about Mage Armor. I'm in the camp that for Abjurant Champion, Mage Armor (and Greater Mage Armor) is concidered an abjurant spell. You're right that Dragon Skin is a Transmutation spell. I missed a step. There's a spell (i think in the draconomicon) called scintillating scales. It's an abjuration spell that reduces your natural armor by half rounded down, and gives you a deflection bonus equal to half your natural armor bonus rounded down. so, with a +5 natural armor bonus from dragon skin, you would get +2 natural armor and +7 deflection bonus :)
Willie the Duck 04-10-07, 12:10 AM	So common that the standard interpretation is that the sample character is more accurate than the PrC text, since it's hard to understand why there would be a PrC class feature that would only effect one core spell. Of course, I now expect a full on "what is official" debate straight into the sewer of forumland.
Raveni 04-10-07, 12:54 AM	So common that the standard interpretation is that the sample character is more accurate than the PrC text, since it's hard to understand why there would be a PrC class feature that would only effect one core spell. Of course, I now expect a full on "what is official" debate straight into the sewer of forumland. Sorry, I won't get into that debate... I'll just agree that it is hard to understand. :)
Jaxgaret 04-10-07, 03:26 AM	Man, are we back on this Abjurant Armor ability again? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061113a Also, the ability is called Abjurant Armor. Why in the nine hells would it effect Conjuration spells? Before Ask Wizards ever addressed this issue, that was my thought on the subject. If the Wizard/Sorcerer in your game wishes to research/know a houseruled abjuration version of Mage Armor, go right ahead. That version of Mage Armor will work fine with the Abjurant Armor ability. But it is a houserule.