Essential Spiked Chain Feats. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Essential Spiked Chain Feats. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Goat Face
06-08-07, 12:50 PM This has likely been asked a hundred times over, but here it goes again...

Aside from E.W.P.: Spiked Chain, what feats do you find essential for the spiked chain fighter?
Zaver
06-08-07, 12:52 PM If your going to use the spiked chain you might as well trip so you need combat expertise to get improved trip. You can drop the chain if you fail and they try and trip you so a spare chain and quickdraw would be a good idea, but a better idea is lightning reflexes so you can get prone attack from CW.
foxtail
06-08-07, 12:57 PM To get the easy ones out of the way: Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, and/or Spring Attack, and Weapon Finesse if it makes sense for your build. Standard fighter feats like Power Attack never go out of style, either.

The spiked chain is an integral part of many tripmaster builds, so if that's your thing, Curling Wave Strike from Stormwrack lets you sacrifice your bonus attack from Improved Trip for the chance to trip a second person at the same time.
Majick
06-08-07, 01:10 PM Whirlwind and Improved Whirlwind

'nuff said
Goat Face
06-08-07, 01:33 PM ...You can drop the chain if you fail and they try and trip you so a spare chain and quickdraw would be a good idea, but a better idea is lightning reflexes so you can get prone attack from CW.

Nice! There is an aspect I didnt originally consider! Thanks Zaver :D

To get the easy ones out of the way: Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, and/or Spring Attack, and Weapon Finesse if it makes sense for your build. Standard fighter feats like Power Attack never go out of style, either.

Thanks Foxtail, these are ones I have definately thought about...it's good to get confirmation that I was on the right track!

The spiked chain is an integral part of many tripmaster builds, so if that's your thing, Curling Wave Strike from Stormwrack lets you sacrifice your bonus attack from Improved Trip for the chance to trip a second person at the same time.

A tripper is the direction I was heading, but I did not know about Curling Wave Strike....thanks for the heads up!

Whirlwind and Improved Whirlwind

Also on my list...well at least Whirlwind was...I will look into Improved Whirlwind...is that a WOTC realease or somthing else? Thanks!
tarkin
06-08-07, 05:17 PM There are so many feats helpfull for Spiked Chain, it is hard to really say which ones are essential.

The only one I think you MUST have is Combat Reflexes.

The various other builds are all optional, and you can generaly pick one do get first then get the others later

Tripping
Disarming
Spring Attack/Whirlwind
Nat_20
06-08-07, 05:26 PM Mage slayer is good cuz if you charge a wizard, during his turn he has to take a move action out of your long reach to cast something causing an Attack of Opportunity... two hits before his one spell...

Their is a new PrC from Drow of the Underdark that lets you use two spiked chains at ones, that might be interesting
Kalarus
06-08-07, 07:38 PM Make sure your character has a good dex, get combat reflexes, combat expertise, improved trip and improved disarm and disable most things coming your way for a good many levels to come.
If you add in good ole weapon focus, specialization and melee weapon mastery, you'll be doing decent damage as well.

I like the synergy of trip and disarm with a spiked chain, you can trip your opponent (I recommend being a dwarf, that stability bonus can help if you fail), and use the follow-through attack to disarm his weapon. Since you make opposed attackrolls and (most) prone attackers take -4 on their attackroll, your chance to disarm is greatly increased (especially considering Spiked Chains are twohanded (another +4) and grant a disarm bonus (another +2). This gives you a very neat extra +10 to your disarm attempt, which is in addition to your regular weapon attack bonus, and your opponent has -4. Most things will lose their weapon.
Sadly, you don't get an additional +4 for attacking the prone character since you're not hitting his AC but making opposed attackrolls for the disarm, but ah well. Just smack his prone butt on your turn with a full attack.

As far as PrCs go, may I recommend Exotic Weapon Master? Sadly it's only 3 levels, but adding an extra attack at your highest base attack bonus at a -2 penalty for all attacks in that round is definitely worth it, as is being able to make AoOs on creatures that have less than total cover (nab that spellcaster around the corner), or a flat +2 bonus to your trip checks.
cwslyclgh
06-08-07, 07:52 PM I will look into Improved Whirlwind...is that a WOTC realease or somthing else? Thanks!it is from the epic level handbook,

it can be found in the SRD:

IMPROVED WHIRLWIND ATTACK [EPIC]
Prerequisites: Int 13, Dex 23, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack.
Benefit: As a standard action, the character can make one melee attack for every five points of his or her base attack bonus (including epic attack bonus, round fractions down).
The character cannot attack any one opponent more than once as part of this action. These attacks (as well as all other attacks made until the start of the character’s next turn) suffer a –4 penalty.
When using the Improved Whirlwind feat, the character also forfeits any bonus or extra attacks granted by other spells or abilities (such as Cleave or the haste spell).
Since these attacks are made as part of a standard action the character can’t make a 5-foot step between any two of the attacks.
Normal: Without this feat, using the Whirlwind Attack feat requires a full attack action, and the character can take a 5-foot step between any two of the attacks.
BugHunter
06-08-07, 09:33 PM Mage slayer is good cuz if you charge a wizard, during his turn he has to take a move action out of your long reach to cast something causing an Attack of Opportunity... two hits before his one spell...

Their is a new PrC from Drow of the Underdark that lets you use two spiked chains at ones, that might be interesting

You are talking about the Cavestalker PrC it requires the person to have natural darkvision (unless DM says otherwise), two levels of ranger, and it is at the 4th level of the PrC class. It doesn't allow you to use two spiked chains unless you take oversized two-weapon fighting feat. The class allows you to use the spiked chain as a one-handed weapon.
Ryu Katsuragi
06-08-07, 09:42 PM You are talking about the Cavestalker PrC it requires the person to have natural darkvision (unless DM says otherwise), two levels of ranger, and it is at the 4th level of the PrC class. It doesn't allow you to use two spiked chains unless you take oversized two-weapon fighting feat. The class allows you to use the spiked chain as a one-handed weapon.

You can dual-wield two one-handed weapons - it simply increases the penalty to -4, rather than -2.
runestar
06-08-07, 10:53 PM There is another whirlwind oriented feat which lets you make a full attack in addition to your normal whirlwind attempt. Might that be what you are referring to?

I would actually discourage the acquisition of the whirlwind feat. It is simply too feat intensive, what with other "must have" feats. Also, it is very situational, and too easy to work around if you have a smart dm. This is also reiterated in the Snow savant's chain tripper build.

Chain Tripper build (http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D163005) if you need some inspiration.:)
Muktar
06-09-07, 12:07 AM If you are looking for a good PrC, I suggest wpn Master. The feats that is required for the class works really well with a Spiked Chain master.
Mr_Teapot
06-09-07, 09:36 AM Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades

Deft Opportunist

If you can convince you GM to allow it, the Dragon magazine feat "Sneak Attack of Opportunity" turns all your AoOs into sneak attacks. Take some rogue levels (possibly the rogue/swashbuckler combo feat).
Evicmar
06-09-07, 10:05 AM Combat reflexes and karmic strike from complete warrior. The latter let's you get an AoO vs anyone that hits you in combat.
TheDanishCartoonist
06-09-07, 11:11 AM Jotunbrund, from Races of Faerun, if available, is very good for a tactical fighter. I'd avoid finessing it if you're going for a tripper, since you need strength to, well, trip.
Majick
06-10-07, 02:01 AM Umm... Improved Whirlwind, at least the one i read, was in a dragon magazine, and allowed you to make you additional attacks after your whirlwind attack

So, say a fighter with +20/+15/+10/+5 makes a whirlwind

he makes his whirlwind at +20 against everybody he threatens

THEN with IMPROVED WHIRLWIND he makes his +15/+10/+5 attacks against whoever else he threatens (single attacks, not more whirlwind attacks)

Improved Whirlwind had all the same prerequisites as regular Whirlwind, so you simply take it directly after as the next feat in the chain

it is NOT epic in the magazine i have
cwslyclgh
06-10-07, 12:16 PM You must be talking about the Improved Whirlwind Attack feat in my class acts article "Tide of Battle" in issue 243, I tend to forget about that one because I did not actually create that one, they removed one of the feats that I sent in and put that one in instead. I think they should have given it a different name so that it did not dupicate an already existing feat that can be found in the SRD. (I also think they should have given it at BAB prerequisite if at least +6, since it is useless before then anyway).

While you are looking for at that article for feats that would be good for a spiked chain user, you might want to look at Sweeping Trip as well, though.
lord_xarallon
06-10-07, 02:19 PM Imp disarm.

A good tactic is:
Disarm opponent. Maybe in a full attack.
Trip him when he tries to pick it up.
And there you go.

Knockback + imp bull rush.
So when you bull rush him after the power attack, he leaves your threatened area, AoOs to you.
Combine it with the Wall Crasher from Dungeonscape substitution class feature and it will hurt when he hits the wall.
Goat Face
06-11-07, 02:36 PM Thanks for all your replies so far...you've certainly hit on some things that I did not initially consider!:D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Goat Face 06-08-07, 12:50 PM	This has likely been asked a hundred times over, but here it goes again... Aside from E.W.P.: Spiked Chain, what feats do you find essential for the spiked chain fighter?
Zaver 06-08-07, 12:52 PM	If your going to use the spiked chain you might as well trip so you need combat expertise to get improved trip. You can drop the chain if you fail and they try and trip you so a spare chain and quickdraw would be a good idea, but a better idea is lightning reflexes so you can get prone attack from CW.
foxtail 06-08-07, 12:57 PM	To get the easy ones out of the way: Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, and/or Spring Attack, and Weapon Finesse if it makes sense for your build. Standard fighter feats like Power Attack never go out of style, either. The spiked chain is an integral part of many tripmaster builds, so if that's your thing, Curling Wave Strike from Stormwrack lets you sacrifice your bonus attack from Improved Trip for the chance to trip a second person at the same time.
Majick 06-08-07, 01:10 PM	Whirlwind and Improved Whirlwind 'nuff said
Goat Face 06-08-07, 01:33 PM	...You can drop the chain if you fail and they try and trip you so a spare chain and quickdraw would be a good idea, but a better idea is lightning reflexes so you can get prone attack from CW. Nice! There is an aspect I didnt originally consider! Thanks Zaver :D To get the easy ones out of the way: Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, and/or Spring Attack, and Weapon Finesse if it makes sense for your build. Standard fighter feats like Power Attack never go out of style, either. Thanks Foxtail, these are ones I have definately thought about...it's good to get confirmation that I was on the right track! The spiked chain is an integral part of many tripmaster builds, so if that's your thing, Curling Wave Strike from Stormwrack lets you sacrifice your bonus attack from Improved Trip for the chance to trip a second person at the same time. A tripper is the direction I was heading, but I did not know about Curling Wave Strike....thanks for the heads up! Whirlwind and Improved Whirlwind Also on my list...well at least Whirlwind was...I will look into Improved Whirlwind...is that a WOTC realease or somthing else? Thanks!
tarkin 06-08-07, 05:17 PM	There are so many feats helpfull for Spiked Chain, it is hard to really say which ones are essential. The only one I think you MUST have is Combat Reflexes. The various other builds are all optional, and you can generaly pick one do get first then get the others later Tripping Disarming Spring Attack/Whirlwind
Nat_20 06-08-07, 05:26 PM	Mage slayer is good cuz if you charge a wizard, during his turn he has to take a move action out of your long reach to cast something causing an Attack of Opportunity... two hits before his one spell... Their is a new PrC from Drow of the Underdark that lets you use two spiked chains at ones, that might be interesting
Kalarus 06-08-07, 07:38 PM	Make sure your character has a good dex, get combat reflexes, combat expertise, improved trip and improved disarm and disable most things coming your way for a good many levels to come. If you add in good ole weapon focus, specialization and melee weapon mastery, you'll be doing decent damage as well. I like the synergy of trip and disarm with a spiked chain, you can trip your opponent (I recommend being a dwarf, that stability bonus can help if you fail), and use the follow-through attack to disarm his weapon. Since you make opposed attackrolls and (most) prone attackers take -4 on their attackroll, your chance to disarm is greatly increased (especially considering Spiked Chains are twohanded (another +4) and grant a disarm bonus (another +2). This gives you a very neat extra +10 to your disarm attempt, which is in addition to your regular weapon attack bonus, and your opponent has -4. Most things will lose their weapon. Sadly, you don't get an additional +4 for attacking the prone character since you're not hitting his AC but making opposed attackrolls for the disarm, but ah well. Just smack his prone butt on your turn with a full attack. As far as PrCs go, may I recommend Exotic Weapon Master? Sadly it's only 3 levels, but adding an extra attack at your highest base attack bonus at a -2 penalty for all attacks in that round is definitely worth it, as is being able to make AoOs on creatures that have less than total cover (nab that spellcaster around the corner), or a flat +2 bonus to your trip checks.
cwslyclgh 06-08-07, 07:52 PM	I will look into Improved Whirlwind...is that a WOTC realease or somthing else? Thanks!it is from the epic level handbook, it can be found in the SRD: IMPROVED WHIRLWIND ATTACK [EPIC] Prerequisites: Int 13, Dex 23, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack. Benefit: As a standard action, the character can make one melee attack for every five points of his or her base attack bonus (including epic attack bonus, round fractions down). The character cannot attack any one opponent more than once as part of this action. These attacks (as well as all other attacks made until the start of the character’s next turn) suffer a –4 penalty. When using the Improved Whirlwind feat, the character also forfeits any bonus or extra attacks granted by other spells or abilities (such as Cleave or the haste spell). Since these attacks are made as part of a standard action the character can’t make a 5-foot step between any two of the attacks. Normal: Without this feat, using the Whirlwind Attack feat requires a full attack action, and the character can take a 5-foot step between any two of the attacks.
BugHunter 06-08-07, 09:33 PM	Mage slayer is good cuz if you charge a wizard, during his turn he has to take a move action out of your long reach to cast something causing an Attack of Opportunity... two hits before his one spell... Their is a new PrC from Drow of the Underdark that lets you use two spiked chains at ones, that might be interesting You are talking about the Cavestalker PrC it requires the person to have natural darkvision (unless DM says otherwise), two levels of ranger, and it is at the 4th level of the PrC class. It doesn't allow you to use two spiked chains unless you take oversized two-weapon fighting feat. The class allows you to use the spiked chain as a one-handed weapon.
Ryu Katsuragi 06-08-07, 09:42 PM	You are talking about the Cavestalker PrC it requires the person to have natural darkvision (unless DM says otherwise), two levels of ranger, and it is at the 4th level of the PrC class. It doesn't allow you to use two spiked chains unless you take oversized two-weapon fighting feat. The class allows you to use the spiked chain as a one-handed weapon. You can dual-wield two one-handed weapons - it simply increases the penalty to -4, rather than -2.
runestar 06-08-07, 10:53 PM	There is another whirlwind oriented feat which lets you make a full attack in addition to your normal whirlwind attempt. Might that be what you are referring to? I would actually discourage the acquisition of the whirlwind feat. It is simply too feat intensive, what with other "must have" feats. Also, it is very situational, and too easy to work around if you have a smart dm. This is also reiterated in the Snow savant's chain tripper build. Chain Tripper build (http://boards1.wizards.com/leaving.php?destination=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D163005) if you need some inspiration.:)
Muktar 06-09-07, 12:07 AM	If you are looking for a good PrC, I suggest wpn Master. The feats that is required for the class works really well with a Spiked Chain master.
Mr_Teapot 06-09-07, 09:36 AM	Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades Deft Opportunist If you can convince you GM to allow it, the Dragon magazine feat "Sneak Attack of Opportunity" turns all your AoOs into sneak attacks. Take some rogue levels (possibly the rogue/swashbuckler combo feat).
Evicmar 06-09-07, 10:05 AM	Combat reflexes and karmic strike from complete warrior. The latter let's you get an AoO vs anyone that hits you in combat.
TheDanishCartoonist 06-09-07, 11:11 AM	Jotunbrund, from Races of Faerun, if available, is very good for a tactical fighter. I'd avoid finessing it if you're going for a tripper, since you need strength to, well, trip.
Majick 06-10-07, 02:01 AM	Umm... Improved Whirlwind, at least the one i read, was in a dragon magazine, and allowed you to make you additional attacks after your whirlwind attack So, say a fighter with +20/+15/+10/+5 makes a whirlwind he makes his whirlwind at +20 against everybody he threatens THEN with IMPROVED WHIRLWIND he makes his +15/+10/+5 attacks against whoever else he threatens (single attacks, not more whirlwind attacks) Improved Whirlwind had all the same prerequisites as regular Whirlwind, so you simply take it directly after as the next feat in the chain it is NOT epic in the magazine i have
cwslyclgh 06-10-07, 12:16 PM	You must be talking about the Improved Whirlwind Attack feat in my class acts article "Tide of Battle" in issue 243, I tend to forget about that one because I did not actually create that one, they removed one of the feats that I sent in and put that one in instead. I think they should have given it a different name so that it did not dupicate an already existing feat that can be found in the SRD. (I also think they should have given it at BAB prerequisite if at least +6, since it is useless before then anyway). While you are looking for at that article for feats that would be good for a spiked chain user, you might want to look at Sweeping Trip as well, though.
lord_xarallon 06-10-07, 02:19 PM	Imp disarm. A good tactic is: Disarm opponent. Maybe in a full attack. Trip him when he tries to pick it up. And there you go. Knockback + imp bull rush. So when you bull rush him after the power attack, he leaves your threatened area, AoOs to you. Combine it with the Wall Crasher from Dungeonscape substitution class feature and it will hurt when he hits the wall.
Goat Face 06-11-07, 02:36 PM	Thanks for all your replies so far...you've certainly hit on some things that I did not initially consider!:D