Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sorlen 09-14-07, 06:48 AM	I can't seem to find definitive answers as to whether uncany dodge or evasion work while balancing. It appears UD does not work while balancing, but that evasion does, at least by rules as written. Can anyone clarify one way or the other?
Merestil Haye 09-14-07, 07:14 AM	I can't seem to find definitive answers as to whether uncany dodge or evasion work while balancing. It appears UD does not work while balancing, but that evasion does, at least by rules as written. Can anyone clarify one way or the other?The question you should be asking is "Does anything about being on slippery or narrow surfaces remove the benefits of Evasion or Uncanny Dodge?" The Balance skill says, in part :Being Attacked while Balancing You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can’t move to avoid a blow, and thus you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). Uncanny Dodge says : Uncanny Dodge (Ex) Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.Thus, not only is it wrong to say that balancing means Uncanny Dodge does not work, a balancing creature is in a condition where Uncanny Dodge explicitly does work. Evasion says : Evasion (Ex) At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.Evasion does not say that a character loses the benefit if flatfooted or denied Dex bonus to AC. The Balance skill makes no mention of making characters helpless or act as if in medium or heavy armour. Therefore being force to balance does not remove Evasion either.
groveborn 09-14-07, 07:30 AM	Even if one could prove that you would lose the benefits of either while balancing, taking 5 ranks in balance would render it moot. You no longer suffer side effects with 5 ranks, only need to make a roll.
Sorlen 09-14-07, 08:22 AM	Since you lose your Dex bonus to AC while balancing due to an inability to move, not due to lack of awareness, and since uncanny dodge is specifically prohibited when you are unable to move, I feel an arguement can be made that balancing precludes uncanny dodge. I do agree that as written evasion works, but am interested in opinions as to whether it 'should' work. Thanks for the replies.
j3st3r 09-14-07, 11:19 AM	I've always thought that evasion is something like jumping/rolling/dodging from the harms way, just like in the cover of Player's Guide to Faerun. But then I found "Dive for Cover" feat from Complete Adventurer, which is basically a poor mans evasion that makes you prone. If I'd be DM, I would allow evasion (like the rules seem to suggest) while balancing, but wouldn't allow Dive for Cover.
1 ton ghost 09-14-07, 01:52 PM	-someone noted the 5 ranks discrepancy in Balance. nj btw. i would rule that if you're willing to go the distance in movement (Climbing, Swimming, Balancing), you should know that you'll lose your Dex bonus. just tell your players before they committ to that move action. not sure if it's a full blown Flat-Footed or just Dex bonus loss, but Uncanny Dodge is not infallible. that's why you can force someone's hand via a Bull Rush to unstable ground, grapple, Feint, whatever... Evasion, that's a tough one. lose your Dex bonus, same if Flat-Footed, but ppl tend to say you always get a save. you just don't get any Dex in this case i guess. not sure.