Evasion as a feat ???? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Evasion as a feat ???? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nighttree
02-20-07, 10:31 PM Is there a Feat that you can take to gain the evasion ability?
Part-Human2
02-20-07, 11:11 PM Yes, but you have to be using Generic Classes variant from Unearthed Arcana.
Jerks
02-20-07, 11:17 PM It's generally bad design to make feats that emulate class features (generic classes being the obvious exception).
nighttree
02-20-07, 11:36 PM I was just trying to find a way to qualify for "Mage lord" without having to multiclass in Rogue or Monk....:(
Jaxgaret
02-20-07, 11:56 PM You might be able to homebrew it as a feat. Perhaps as such:

Evasion (Ex) [General]

Your character can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility.

Prerequisites

Lightning Reflexes, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility

Benefit

If your character makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if your character is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless character does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Or you could take a look at this thread for more help: http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-689280.html
Mitchell
02-21-07, 12:01 AM I was just trying to find a way to qualify for "Mage lord" without having to multiclass in Rogue or Monk....:(

Shadowdancer. :cool:
There is a reason why some PrCs have these requirements... You are supposed to multiclass as something with evasion to qualify.
AT least with Shadowdancer there aren't any favored class issues to consider, though you would have to meet all of the requirements to take this class as well.
tarkin
02-21-07, 10:31 AM Evasion is way too powerfull for a standard feat.

Even if you put in the same restrictions that Monk/Rogue have (which by the way are not a requirement of evasion - the ring of evasion works if you are in armor).

As a generl rule, if it is a class ability, it is too powerfull as a feat.

Otherwise the game designers would have made it a feat to start off with and have Rogue/Monk get the feat as a bonus feat. They did it with Rangers and combat styles, they could have done it with Evasion.

P.S. The Generic classes in the UA book expressely state that when using those rules, certain things that are normally too powerfull to be considered feats can be treated as feats.

If they had a brain, they would have called it Tricks instead of feats, and let people take a feat as a trick if they wanted to.
nighttree
02-21-07, 12:09 PM Shadowdancer. :cool:
There is a reason why some PrCs have these requirements... You are supposed to multiclass as something with evasion to qualify.
AT least with Shadowdancer there aren't any favored class issues to consider, though you would have to meet all of the requirements to take this class as well.

Actually I looked at Shadow Dancer as well (I actually love what you get for those two levels) but meeting the requirements would be just as hard as the loss of two levels to multiclass.

I'll just have to "suck it up" and multi class as a Rogue...:D
jameswilliamogle
02-21-07, 12:15 PM Shape Soulmeld: Impulse Boots and Open Least Chakra: Feet together give you Evasion and Uncanny Dodge. Magic of Incarnum, p. 71.

Its not particularly overpowering, imo (the same character could've gotten Power Attack and Leap Attack with those feats, so its all perspective).
Stickboy2323
02-22-07, 07:31 AM Here's the standard way to do it.

Glimmerskin Strongheart Halfling

Wizard (Fighter Feat Variant from UA) 5, Combat Medic 5, Magelord 10

1 - Combat Casting
B - Improved Initiative
F - Dodge
3 - Arcane Disciple: Healing
F - Weapon Focus: Ray
6 - Spell Mastery
9 - Signature Spell
12, 15, 18 - OPEN
nighttree
02-22-07, 10:47 AM Won't work in my build, as I need Recaster 5, Mage Lord 10 to get this guy where I'm trying to go with him....but thanks

Given how often I see "Combat Medic" mentioned....I'm really gunna have to look at that class....:D
Witch
02-22-07, 10:50 AM This ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion. Whenever she makes a Reflex saving throw to determine whether she takes half damage, a successful save results in no damage.

Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Forge Ring, jump; Price 25,000 gp.

This will solve your multiclassing issue.
nighttree
02-22-07, 11:07 AM This ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion. Whenever she makes a Reflex saving throw to determine whether she takes half damage, a successful save results in no damage.

Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Forge Ring, jump; Price 25,000 gp.

This will solve your multiclassing issue.

LOL.....It would....except we are not allowed to qualify for classes (or PrC) with magic items......

After "plotting" the build....I still make it to 9th level spells even with the 2 levels of Rogue, and between his Int bonus (to spells) and "Collegiate Wizard" feat (boosting spells in my spell book) I guess I'm not doing to badly......:D
Witch
02-22-07, 11:09 AM LOL.....It would....except we are not allowed to qualify for classes (or PrC) with magic items......
Why would you not be? Is your DM houseruling that? It's not a good houserule - magic items are assumed to work for Pr.C. requirements & feats. That's quite clear by the fact that they're not explicitly stated not to work. Evasion is evasion, regardless of source.
nighttree
02-22-07, 12:04 PM Why would you not be? Is your DM houseruling that? It's not a good houserule - magic items are assumed to work for Pr.C. requirements & feats. That's quite clear by the fact that they're not explicitly stated not to work. Evasion is evasion, regardless of source.

Then you get captured....your ring is taken away....and suddenly you no longer qualify for your prestige class...and as a result can't use any of it's abilities.
We actually as a group decided that (for us at least) it didn't make sense to qualify for PrC and such with items.
We run a pretty "low item" game to begin with, prefering to rely on our own abilities (we seldom have characters with familiiars or animal companions either)....but hey....to each their own..:D
Taureus_Drakken
02-22-07, 12:49 PM That is not true.

You only lose the abilities of the PrC if you were to have negative levels.

No longer meeting the requirements only means you lose feats, not PrCs.
Witch
02-22-07, 12:51 PM No longer meeting the requirements only means you lose feats, not PrCs.
Complete Warrior/Arcane beg to differ. Although I hate that rule, as it is far too lacking in regards to nuance - some things should be lost, others not.
Kresalak
02-22-07, 01:01 PM As a generl rule, if it is a class ability, it is too powerfull as a feat.

The paradox of this is that there is an entire class that gets nothing but feats as its class features.
Mr_Teapot
02-22-07, 01:45 PM Divine Oracles get something which is basically evasion with a different name. You could try to convince your GM to let that qualify. Divine Oracle is also really easy to get into, and doesn't need to actually be boosting divine casting, despite the name.
gelalshawr
02-22-07, 01:51 PM Complete Warrior/Arcane beg to differ. Although I hate that rule, as it is far too lacking in regards to nuance - some things should be lost, others not.

problem with that way of thinking is the "Oh I need Evasion to get this prestige class, buy the ring, get the class, and sell the ring because i don't need evasion anymore"
jameswilliamogle
02-22-07, 02:33 PM That's quite clear by the fact that they're not explicitly stated not to work.Eeep! Absence of a rule isn't the same as the game allowing it.

In this case it is, just b/c of the CW/CA rule. Temporary abilities apparently were never meant by the designers to qualify for PrC's and feats (I don't know where that leaves the CA/CW text, though).

silliness: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11326619&postcount=181
nighttree
02-22-07, 08:23 PM Divine Oracles get something which is basically evasion with a different name. You could try to convince your GM to let that qualify. Divine Oracle is also really easy to get into, and doesn't need to actually be boosting divine casting, despite the name.

Thanks for the TIP.....:D
I know I have that PrC around here somewhere (CD correct ?)
I'll have to work the build that way as well and see what I end up with.
Polaris
02-23-07, 12:10 AM Complete Warrior/Arcane beg to differ. Although I hate that rule, as it is far too lacking in regards to nuance - some things should be lost, others not.

That is incorrect.

1. You can use items with a pernament effect (such as a ring of evasion) to qualify for PrCs. Complete Warrior states this explicitly in fact.

2. If you lose the item, you simply lose the abilities of the PrC but otherwise keep the raw PrC levels (hit dice, saves, bab) until you qualify once more. BTW, this is badly written and only technically applies if you use the Complete Books. The core books are much more lenient.

-Polaris
Stickboy2323
02-24-07, 09:49 PM Well the whole argument in this case is moot anyway because...

From Lost empires of Faerun - Magelord
Special: You must have the evasion special quality as either a class feature or a racial trait.
So whether a Ring of Evasion lets you normally qualify for prestige classes or not in this case is does not.
Chimaera2000
02-25-07, 04:40 AM I experienced this same problem when I was trying to qualify for the Fochulan Lyrist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=2) while keeping as many caster levels as possible. Open Least Chakra and Shape Soulmeld from Magic of Incarnum are probably the most efficient way to do this.
Polaris
02-25-07, 01:05 PM I experienced this same problem when I was trying to qualify for the Fochulan Lyrist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=2) while keeping as many caster levels as possible. Open Least Chakra and Shape Soulmeld from Magic of Incarnum are probably the most efficient way to do this.

Chimera,

Getting a Ring of Evasion is the best (if cheesiest) way to meet the evasion qualification for Focholan Lyrist if you don't want to give up spell levels since it lacks the restrictive language of the Mage Lord PrC.

-Polaris

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nighttree 02-20-07, 10:31 PM	Is there a Feat that you can take to gain the evasion ability?
Part-Human2 02-20-07, 11:11 PM	Yes, but you have to be using Generic Classes variant from Unearthed Arcana.
Jerks 02-20-07, 11:17 PM	It's generally bad design to make feats that emulate class features (generic classes being the obvious exception).
nighttree 02-20-07, 11:36 PM	I was just trying to find a way to qualify for "Mage lord" without having to multiclass in Rogue or Monk....:(
Jaxgaret 02-20-07, 11:56 PM	You might be able to homebrew it as a feat. Perhaps as such: Evasion (Ex) [General] Your character can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. Prerequisites Lightning Reflexes, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility Benefit If your character makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if your character is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless character does not gain the benefit of evasion. Or you could take a look at this thread for more help: http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-689280.html
Mitchell 02-21-07, 12:01 AM	I was just trying to find a way to qualify for "Mage lord" without having to multiclass in Rogue or Monk....:( Shadowdancer. :cool: There is a reason why some PrCs have these requirements... You are supposed to multiclass as something with evasion to qualify. AT least with Shadowdancer there aren't any favored class issues to consider, though you would have to meet all of the requirements to take this class as well.
tarkin 02-21-07, 10:31 AM	Evasion is way too powerfull for a standard feat. Even if you put in the same restrictions that Monk/Rogue have (which by the way are not a requirement of evasion - the ring of evasion works if you are in armor). As a generl rule, if it is a class ability, it is too powerfull as a feat. Otherwise the game designers would have made it a feat to start off with and have Rogue/Monk get the feat as a bonus feat. They did it with Rangers and combat styles, they could have done it with Evasion. P.S. The Generic classes in the UA book expressely state that when using those rules, certain things that are normally too powerfull to be considered feats can be treated as feats. If they had a brain, they would have called it Tricks instead of feats, and let people take a feat as a trick if they wanted to.
nighttree 02-21-07, 12:09 PM	Shadowdancer. :cool: There is a reason why some PrCs have these requirements... You are supposed to multiclass as something with evasion to qualify. AT least with Shadowdancer there aren't any favored class issues to consider, though you would have to meet all of the requirements to take this class as well. Actually I looked at Shadow Dancer as well (I actually love what you get for those two levels) but meeting the requirements would be just as hard as the loss of two levels to multiclass. I'll just have to "suck it up" and multi class as a Rogue...:D
jameswilliamogle 02-21-07, 12:15 PM	Shape Soulmeld: Impulse Boots and Open Least Chakra: Feet together give you Evasion and Uncanny Dodge. Magic of Incarnum, p. 71. Its not particularly overpowering, imo (the same character could've gotten Power Attack and Leap Attack with those feats, so its all perspective).
Stickboy2323 02-22-07, 07:31 AM	Here's the standard way to do it. Glimmerskin Strongheart Halfling Wizard (Fighter Feat Variant from UA) 5, Combat Medic 5, Magelord 10 1 - Combat Casting B - Improved Initiative F - Dodge 3 - Arcane Disciple: Healing F - Weapon Focus: Ray 6 - Spell Mastery 9 - Signature Spell 12, 15, 18 - OPEN
nighttree 02-22-07, 10:47 AM	Won't work in my build, as I need Recaster 5, Mage Lord 10 to get this guy where I'm trying to go with him....but thanks Given how often I see "Combat Medic" mentioned....I'm really gunna have to look at that class....:D
Witch 02-22-07, 10:50 AM	This ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion. Whenever she makes a Reflex saving throw to determine whether she takes half damage, a successful save results in no damage. Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Forge Ring, jump; Price 25,000 gp. This will solve your multiclassing issue.
nighttree 02-22-07, 11:07 AM	This ring continually grants the wearer the ability to avoid damage as if she had evasion. Whenever she makes a Reflex saving throw to determine whether she takes half damage, a successful save results in no damage. Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Forge Ring, jump; Price 25,000 gp. This will solve your multiclassing issue. LOL.....It would....except we are not allowed to qualify for classes (or PrC) with magic items...... After "plotting" the build....I still make it to 9th level spells even with the 2 levels of Rogue, and between his Int bonus (to spells) and "Collegiate Wizard" feat (boosting spells in my spell book) I guess I'm not doing to badly......:D
Witch 02-22-07, 11:09 AM	LOL.....It would....except we are not allowed to qualify for classes (or PrC) with magic items...... Why would you not be? Is your DM houseruling that? It's not a good houserule - magic items are assumed to work for Pr.C. requirements & feats. That's quite clear by the fact that they're not explicitly stated not to work. Evasion is evasion, regardless of source.
nighttree 02-22-07, 12:04 PM	Why would you not be? Is your DM houseruling that? It's not a good houserule - magic items are assumed to work for Pr.C. requirements & feats. That's quite clear by the fact that they're not explicitly stated not to work. Evasion is evasion, regardless of source. Then you get captured....your ring is taken away....and suddenly you no longer qualify for your prestige class...and as a result can't use any of it's abilities. We actually as a group decided that (for us at least) it didn't make sense to qualify for PrC and such with items. We run a pretty "low item" game to begin with, prefering to rely on our own abilities (we seldom have characters with familiiars or animal companions either)....but hey....to each their own..:D
Taureus_Drakken 02-22-07, 12:49 PM	That is not true. You only lose the abilities of the PrC if you were to have negative levels. No longer meeting the requirements only means you lose feats, not PrCs.
Witch 02-22-07, 12:51 PM	No longer meeting the requirements only means you lose feats, not PrCs. Complete Warrior/Arcane beg to differ. Although I hate that rule, as it is far too lacking in regards to nuance - some things should be lost, others not.
Kresalak 02-22-07, 01:01 PM	As a generl rule, if it is a class ability, it is too powerfull as a feat. The paradox of this is that there is an entire class that gets nothing but feats as its class features.
Mr_Teapot 02-22-07, 01:45 PM	Divine Oracles get something which is basically evasion with a different name. You could try to convince your GM to let that qualify. Divine Oracle is also really easy to get into, and doesn't need to actually be boosting divine casting, despite the name.
gelalshawr 02-22-07, 01:51 PM	Complete Warrior/Arcane beg to differ. Although I hate that rule, as it is far too lacking in regards to nuance - some things should be lost, others not. problem with that way of thinking is the "Oh I need Evasion to get this prestige class, buy the ring, get the class, and sell the ring because i don't need evasion anymore"
jameswilliamogle 02-22-07, 02:33 PM	That's quite clear by the fact that they're not explicitly stated not to work.Eeep! Absence of a rule isn't the same as the game allowing it. In this case it is, just b/c of the CW/CA rule. Temporary abilities apparently were never meant by the designers to qualify for PrC's and feats (I don't know where that leaves the CA/CW text, though). silliness: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11326619&postcount=181
nighttree 02-22-07, 08:23 PM	Divine Oracles get something which is basically evasion with a different name. You could try to convince your GM to let that qualify. Divine Oracle is also really easy to get into, and doesn't need to actually be boosting divine casting, despite the name. Thanks for the TIP.....:D I know I have that PrC around here somewhere (CD correct ?) I'll have to work the build that way as well and see what I end up with.
Polaris 02-23-07, 12:10 AM	Complete Warrior/Arcane beg to differ. Although I hate that rule, as it is far too lacking in regards to nuance - some things should be lost, others not. That is incorrect. 1. You can use items with a pernament effect (such as a ring of evasion) to qualify for PrCs. Complete Warrior states this explicitly in fact. 2. If you lose the item, you simply lose the abilities of the PrC but otherwise keep the raw PrC levels (hit dice, saves, bab) until you qualify once more. BTW, this is badly written and only technically applies if you use the Complete Books. The core books are much more lenient. -Polaris
Stickboy2323 02-24-07, 09:49 PM	Well the whole argument in this case is moot anyway because... From Lost empires of Faerun - Magelord Special: You must have the evasion special quality as either a class feature or a racial trait. So whether a Ring of Evasion lets you normally qualify for prestige classes or not in this case is does not.
Chimaera2000 02-25-07, 04:40 AM	I experienced this same problem when I was trying to qualify for the Fochulan Lyrist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=2) while keeping as many caster levels as possible. Open Least Chakra and Shape Soulmeld from Magic of Incarnum are probably the most efficient way to do this.
Polaris 02-25-07, 01:05 PM	I experienced this same problem when I was trying to qualify for the Fochulan Lyrist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050107a&page=2) while keeping as many caster levels as possible. Open Least Chakra and Shape Soulmeld from Magic of Incarnum are probably the most efficient way to do this. Chimera, Getting a Ring of Evasion is the best (if cheesiest) way to meet the evasion qualification for Focholan Lyrist if you don't want to give up spell levels since it lacks the restrictive language of the Mage Lord PrC. -Polaris