Evasive reflexes does not count as AoO? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Evasive reflexes does not count as AoO? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FrostHammer
03-15-07, 03:19 AM If you have this feat...

EVASIVE REFLEXES

When an opponent gives you an opening in combat, you know exactly what to do: slip away.

Prerequisite: Dex 13

Benefit: When an opponent gives you a chance to make an attack of opportunity, you can instead immediately take a 5-foot step.

Special: Evasive Reflexes can be used in place of Combat Reflexes to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability. You can take both this feat and Combat Reflexes.

...and an opponents provokes an AoO from you, and you choose to take a 5-foot step, it does NOT count towards your AoO limit correct?
wizardguy2003
03-15-07, 03:57 AM Considering it's a 5 foot step, then it's not officially a move action so I, as a DM, wouldn't consider it provoking an attack of opportunity. Your not leaving your space, your just dodging in it.
FrostHammer
03-15-07, 04:25 AM I think you misunderstoodmy question. For example, Bob the fighter can only make 3 AoOs a round ,ax. Someone moves out of his threatened square without Tumbling, provoking an AoO from Bob. Instead of hitting the dumb sod, Bob decides to take a 5 foot step. Now, does Bon have only 2 AoOs left for the round, or does he still have 3?
jay
03-15-07, 04:34 AM ...and an opponents provokes an AoO from you, and you choose to take a 5-foot step, it does NOT count towards your AoO limit correct?
Why wouldn't it?

The only thing the feat mentions is you can take a 5 ft. step instead of make an AoO, so I assume all other rules are the same, including the one about a limited number AoO's per round.
tarkin
03-15-07, 10:33 AM A literal reading of the feat is that you take the 5ft step INSTEAD of taking an AoO, so therefore you have not taken an AoO.

(I eat tofu instead of meat - therefore I have not eaten meat.)

Honestly, this looks like a very powerfull feat. It even has "can qualify for things that pre-req Combat Reflexes).

If you also rule that it is not an AoO, then you could do this FOREVER. That is if you are large (with reach) and 10 people charge you, you could move 10*5 = 50 ft back. A generous DM could even let you do this if you had already spent your round doing a Run away from the 10 people.

So from a balance point of view, I would say "Counts as an AoO".

I would expect:

Strict/Loose Game: the 5ft step counts as an AoO.

Power/Anything Goes: It is not an AoO.
FrostHammer
03-15-07, 11:19 AM So, if you've got a feat that lets you make an AoO when someone charges you, and yo've go tthis feat, then you can never be charged right?
wolfie-kun
03-15-07, 11:43 AM So, if you've got a feat that lets you make an AoO when someone charges you, and yo've go tthis feat, then you can never be charged right?

QThe Tome of Battle includes a feat named "Evasive Reflexes". This feat is raising a lot of questions on the message boards. Here are the main questions that I hope you can shed some light on:

1. If I have both Evasive Reflexes and Combat Reflexes, and I am normally entitled to four attacks of opportunity per round, what is the maximum number of 5-foot-steps per round that I can make using Evasive Reflexes?

2. Do the 5-foot-step(s) that I make using Evasive Reflexes count against the total number of attacks of opportunity that I can make in a single round?

Thanks in advance.

A
1) 4. You can take a five foot step each time an enemy provokes.

2) Yes they do! Essentially you are replacing the attack with the move, but it still uses up an AoO!

If I were to DM someone doing that I would eventually say that the charger would expect you to move and will just hit you anyway, even though you're adjacent and not actually in the way.
tarkin
03-15-07, 01:11 PM wolfie-kun, can you tell us where you got the quote?

Certain places get more 'respect' than others.
FrostHammer
03-15-07, 01:14 PM However, if I'm out of the weapon range, then I'm safe. If the charger has to hit from 10 feet away due to his weapon, and I make a 5 foot step TOWARDs him, I've just went inside his minimum range. Therefore, no attack happens.
R4za
03-15-07, 01:42 PM What if you're the one with the reach weapon? You won't even need a feat to avoid a charge, since their line towards you involves leaving a threatened area. So they move, you take five steps back, they end their charge out of range and you're posed to wack them on your next turn, so you take a standard action to do so, then a move action to move away from them again so they cant reach you with just a five foot step. You never get touched.

Heck, take that AoO on charge feat, combat reflexes and use a spiked chain, giving you two attacks of opportunity when they charge you. On the first, you hit them, on your second you step away so they don't touch you, then on your own turn you smack them again and move out of range. If they follow you, they just end up getting beat up and not touching you - again.
FrostHammer
03-15-07, 02:39 PM They can have reahc too. Most mounted chargers do.
fatal error
03-15-07, 04:59 PM Heck, take that AoO on charge feat, combat reflexes and use a spiked chain, giving you two attacks of opportunity when they charge you.

Do you? I thought an action could only provoke one attack of opportunity. Thus, Hold the Line is good for non-reach fighters wanting to AoO chargers.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 03-15-07, 03:19 AM	If you have this feat... EVASIVE REFLEXES When an opponent gives you an opening in combat, you know exactly what to do: slip away. Prerequisite: Dex 13 Benefit: When an opponent gives you a chance to make an attack of opportunity, you can instead immediately take a 5-foot step. Special: Evasive Reflexes can be used in place of Combat Reflexes to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability. You can take both this feat and Combat Reflexes. ...and an opponents provokes an AoO from you, and you choose to take a 5-foot step, it does NOT count towards your AoO limit correct?
wizardguy2003 03-15-07, 03:57 AM	Considering it's a 5 foot step, then it's not officially a move action so I, as a DM, wouldn't consider it provoking an attack of opportunity. Your not leaving your space, your just dodging in it.
FrostHammer 03-15-07, 04:25 AM	I think you misunderstoodmy question. For example, Bob the fighter can only make 3 AoOs a round ,ax. Someone moves out of his threatened square without Tumbling, provoking an AoO from Bob. Instead of hitting the dumb sod, Bob decides to take a 5 foot step. Now, does Bon have only 2 AoOs left for the round, or does he still have 3?
jay 03-15-07, 04:34 AM	...and an opponents provokes an AoO from you, and you choose to take a 5-foot step, it does NOT count towards your AoO limit correct? Why wouldn't it? The only thing the feat mentions is you can take a 5 ft. step instead of make an AoO, so I assume all other rules are the same, including the one about a limited number AoO's per round.
tarkin 03-15-07, 10:33 AM	A literal reading of the feat is that you take the 5ft step INSTEAD of taking an AoO, so therefore you have not taken an AoO. (I eat tofu instead of meat - therefore I have not eaten meat.) Honestly, this looks like a very powerfull feat. It even has "can qualify for things that pre-req Combat Reflexes). If you also rule that it is not an AoO, then you could do this FOREVER. That is if you are large (with reach) and 10 people charge you, you could move 10*5 = 50 ft back. A generous DM could even let you do this if you had already spent your round doing a Run away from the 10 people. So from a balance point of view, I would say "Counts as an AoO". I would expect: Strict/Loose Game: the 5ft step counts as an AoO. Power/Anything Goes: It is not an AoO.
FrostHammer 03-15-07, 11:19 AM	So, if you've got a feat that lets you make an AoO when someone charges you, and yo've go tthis feat, then you can never be charged right?
wolfie-kun 03-15-07, 11:43 AM	So, if you've got a feat that lets you make an AoO when someone charges you, and yo've go tthis feat, then you can never be charged right? QThe Tome of Battle includes a feat named "Evasive Reflexes". This feat is raising a lot of questions on the message boards. Here are the main questions that I hope you can shed some light on: 1. If I have both Evasive Reflexes and Combat Reflexes, and I am normally entitled to four attacks of opportunity per round, what is the maximum number of 5-foot-steps per round that I can make using Evasive Reflexes? 2. Do the 5-foot-step(s) that I make using Evasive Reflexes count against the total number of attacks of opportunity that I can make in a single round? Thanks in advance. A 1) 4. You can take a five foot step each time an enemy provokes. 2) Yes they do! Essentially you are replacing the attack with the move, but it still uses up an AoO! If I were to DM someone doing that I would eventually say that the charger would expect you to move and will just hit you anyway, even though you're adjacent and not actually in the way.
tarkin 03-15-07, 01:11 PM	wolfie-kun, can you tell us where you got the quote? Certain places get more 'respect' than others.
FrostHammer 03-15-07, 01:14 PM	However, if I'm out of the weapon range, then I'm safe. If the charger has to hit from 10 feet away due to his weapon, and I make a 5 foot step TOWARDs him, I've just went inside his minimum range. Therefore, no attack happens.
R4za 03-15-07, 01:42 PM	What if you're the one with the reach weapon? You won't even need a feat to avoid a charge, since their line towards you involves leaving a threatened area. So they move, you take five steps back, they end their charge out of range and you're posed to wack them on your next turn, so you take a standard action to do so, then a move action to move away from them again so they cant reach you with just a five foot step. You never get touched. Heck, take that AoO on charge feat, combat reflexes and use a spiked chain, giving you two attacks of opportunity when they charge you. On the first, you hit them, on your second you step away so they don't touch you, then on your own turn you smack them again and move out of range. If they follow you, they just end up getting beat up and not touching you - again.
FrostHammer 03-15-07, 02:39 PM	They can have reahc too. Most mounted chargers do.
fatal error 03-15-07, 04:59 PM	Heck, take that AoO on charge feat, combat reflexes and use a spiked chain, giving you two attacks of opportunity when they charge you. Do you? I thought an action could only provoke one attack of opportunity. Thus, Hold the Line is good for non-reach fighters wanting to AoO chargers.