Exotic Weapon Feat & Half Orcs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Exotic Weapon Feat & Half Orcs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kapnkrunch
04-06-07, 06:59 PM Dwarves have weapon familiarity with the urgrosh and Dwarven waraxe (i.e. they treat those weapons as martial weapons instead of exotic weapons), Gnomes have weapon familiarity with hook hammers, but Half Orcs and Orcs need to take the Exotic Weapon feat to be able to use an Orc Double-Axe. Anybody know how come that is?
ClementWillowbreaker
04-06-07, 08:04 PM Anybody know how come that is?
Because having the half-orc suck completely makes people feel smarter about picking a dwarf or human. Since the half-orc doesn't have any racial features and, "balanced" ability mods, throwing them familiarity in a weapon helps. Of course, when is the last time you saw a barbarian TWFing with a double weapon?
Shadowfax7
04-06-07, 08:53 PM I believe the reason Half-Orcs don't have Weapon Familiarity with the Orc Double Axe is that they are only a half race, not a full one.

However, why orcs don't have it beats me.
Oakspar77777
04-06-07, 09:08 PM This comes up often.

They don't have it because WotC made H-Orcs an intentionally simple race to be easy for newbies.

If you don't have low IQ newbies, your DM will likely have no problem granting your 1/2 Orc the ability.
runestar
04-06-07, 10:55 PM Because despite the name, very few orcs actually use an orc double axe, if at all. Races of faerun has orcs automatically proficient with the greataxe and javelin, meaning that these are the 2 weapons they typically use, not the orc double axe. So there is really little reason for them to be proficient with it.:)
kapnkrunch
04-06-07, 11:02 PM I hear what you're saying but still wonder. If Gnomes get freakin' hook hammers Orcs should get the double-axe as a martial weapon (which is hardly an automatic proficiency).
Frugal
04-07-07, 09:56 AM There's really no common sense answer to this, half-orcs totally suck in 3.5.

Personally, I like the idea that the racial exotic weapons are exotic because they're typically only available and used by members of that race so for the campaign I'm designing half-orcs and orcs get the weapon familiarity (as well as a bunch of other racial traits that reflect their flavour in my world and make them a race actually worth playing, and not just for the "me smash!" role). I'm working on similar tweaks to elves so that they have weapon familiarity with the elven weapons in Races of The Wild instead of the free martial proficiencies.

Guess that's a bit of a longer winded way of just saying that you're right that it doesn't make much sense and that half-orcs suck so much that they could easily handle this change (and more) without being unbalanced.
Khadmus
04-07-07, 04:25 PM Elves have no racial ability relating to the Elven Courtblade, Swiftblade, or Lightblade. (I'm pretty sure those aren't the actual names). Gnomes do not have proficiency with the gnome buckler-weapon. Same with the dwarves' Buckler-Axe.
EvilVegan
04-07-07, 04:29 PM Half-orcs should treat gnomes as martial weapons.

I mean, gnomes get +1 to hit for size and have higher hit points to resist sunder attempts. Plus with prestidigitation the half-orc never needs to sharpen or clean their weapon.

Just a thought.
Frugal
04-07-07, 05:24 PM Elves have no racial ability relating to the Elven Courtblade, Swiftblade, or Lightblade. (I'm pretty sure those aren't the actual names). Gnomes do not have proficiency with the gnome buckler-weapon. Same with the dwarves' Buckler-Axe.

Yes, although those weapons aren't in the PHB so it's not as surprising. Given half-orcs' lack of racial traits and the fact that the weapon is in the book it does seem a little odd that they got shafted.
runestar
04-07-07, 09:57 PM Personally, I see no harm in giving it to them. I never used any of those exotic weapons anyways, even if they were thrown in my face. Too occupied with greatswords and spiked chains...:embarrass
Frugal
04-08-07, 01:18 AM Personally, I see no harm in giving it to them. I never used any of those exotic weapons anyways, even if they were thrown in my face. Too occupied with greatswords and spiked chains...:embarrass

True, the only exotic weapon I can think of that see regular use is the dwarven waraxe and even then it's as a martial weapon in the hands of a dwarf.

I like the idea because it throws in a bit more flavour and might actually encourage someone to use the damn things. Not to mention, as a DM it means I can throw them around a bit in the hands of Orc and Half-Orc opponents without having to burn a feat on them. I like the idea of throwing in some flavour to the weapons enemies use so it's not just the standard pile of greatswords and spiked chains. I mean the players might min/max about which weapons are the most powerful but that doesn't mean all the NPCs should. And it's not just a game mechanics thing, it could be cultural significance. I think it just adds a lot of flavour to the races you fight. Plus, it helps limit the impact of magical equipment. For instance, I might throw a really powerful orc double axe into the hands of a BBEG if I know no one in the party is proficient in it and it will just end up being cashed in later, I can control that a lot better than if it's a greatsword or something. Plus again, it's just more flavourful.
NiQil
04-08-07, 02:00 AM There is a feat (in Complete Warrior, I believe) that, if taken, grants your character proficiency in any weapon that bears the race as a part of the weapon name. So non-martial proficient dwarves could take it to be proficient with the waraxe, urgrosh and buckler-axe....elves can take it for the various 'blades that are around....and half-orcs and orcs can take it for the double-axe. In a sidebar near this feat, it is also suggested as an alternate rule that your DM may wish to grant the feat for free to all players.
Frugal
04-08-07, 10:13 AM There is a feat (in Complete Warrior, I believe) that, if taken, grants your character proficiency in any weapon that bears the race as a part of the weapon name. So non-martial proficient dwarves could take it to be proficient with the waraxe, urgrosh and buckler-axe....elves can take it for the various 'blades that are around....and half-orcs and orcs can take it for the double-axe. In a sidebar near this feat, it is also suggested as an alternate rule that your DM may wish to grant the feat for free to all players.

The feat is improved weapon familiarity and just gives you familiarity (treat the exotic as a martial) so it still doesn't help those not proficient with martial.

I don't have a problem with some racial weapons being exotic if I feel like they're just too esoteric or would unbalance things too much but I really don't see that issue with half-orcs getting the doulbe axe and replacing elves' free proficiencies with the rapier and longsword with familiarity with the elven blades.

Plus, depending on which race you are, that feat can be either really good or totally useless.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kapnkrunch 04-06-07, 06:59 PM	Dwarves have weapon familiarity with the urgrosh and Dwarven waraxe (i.e. they treat those weapons as martial weapons instead of exotic weapons), Gnomes have weapon familiarity with hook hammers, but Half Orcs and Orcs need to take the Exotic Weapon feat to be able to use an Orc Double-Axe. Anybody know how come that is?
ClementWillowbreaker 04-06-07, 08:04 PM	Anybody know how come that is? Because having the half-orc suck completely makes people feel smarter about picking a dwarf or human. Since the half-orc doesn't have any racial features and, "balanced" ability mods, throwing them familiarity in a weapon helps. Of course, when is the last time you saw a barbarian TWFing with a double weapon?
Shadowfax7 04-06-07, 08:53 PM	I believe the reason Half-Orcs don't have Weapon Familiarity with the Orc Double Axe is that they are only a half race, not a full one. However, why orcs don't have it beats me.
Oakspar77777 04-06-07, 09:08 PM	This comes up often. They don't have it because WotC made H-Orcs an intentionally simple race to be easy for newbies. If you don't have low IQ newbies, your DM will likely have no problem granting your 1/2 Orc the ability.
runestar 04-06-07, 10:55 PM	Because despite the name, very few orcs actually use an orc double axe, if at all. Races of faerun has orcs automatically proficient with the greataxe and javelin, meaning that these are the 2 weapons they typically use, not the orc double axe. So there is really little reason for them to be proficient with it.:)
kapnkrunch 04-06-07, 11:02 PM	I hear what you're saying but still wonder. If Gnomes get freakin' hook hammers Orcs should get the double-axe as a martial weapon (which is hardly an automatic proficiency).
Frugal 04-07-07, 09:56 AM	There's really no common sense answer to this, half-orcs totally suck in 3.5. Personally, I like the idea that the racial exotic weapons are exotic because they're typically only available and used by members of that race so for the campaign I'm designing half-orcs and orcs get the weapon familiarity (as well as a bunch of other racial traits that reflect their flavour in my world and make them a race actually worth playing, and not just for the "me smash!" role). I'm working on similar tweaks to elves so that they have weapon familiarity with the elven weapons in Races of The Wild instead of the free martial proficiencies. Guess that's a bit of a longer winded way of just saying that you're right that it doesn't make much sense and that half-orcs suck so much that they could easily handle this change (and more) without being unbalanced.
Khadmus 04-07-07, 04:25 PM	Elves have no racial ability relating to the Elven Courtblade, Swiftblade, or Lightblade. (I'm pretty sure those aren't the actual names). Gnomes do not have proficiency with the gnome buckler-weapon. Same with the dwarves' Buckler-Axe.
EvilVegan 04-07-07, 04:29 PM	Half-orcs should treat gnomes as martial weapons. I mean, gnomes get +1 to hit for size and have higher hit points to resist sunder attempts. Plus with prestidigitation the half-orc never needs to sharpen or clean their weapon. Just a thought.
Frugal 04-07-07, 05:24 PM	Elves have no racial ability relating to the Elven Courtblade, Swiftblade, or Lightblade. (I'm pretty sure those aren't the actual names). Gnomes do not have proficiency with the gnome buckler-weapon. Same with the dwarves' Buckler-Axe. Yes, although those weapons aren't in the PHB so it's not as surprising. Given half-orcs' lack of racial traits and the fact that the weapon is in the book it does seem a little odd that they got shafted.
runestar 04-07-07, 09:57 PM	Personally, I see no harm in giving it to them. I never used any of those exotic weapons anyways, even if they were thrown in my face. Too occupied with greatswords and spiked chains...:embarrass
Frugal 04-08-07, 01:18 AM	Personally, I see no harm in giving it to them. I never used any of those exotic weapons anyways, even if they were thrown in my face. Too occupied with greatswords and spiked chains...:embarrass True, the only exotic weapon I can think of that see regular use is the dwarven waraxe and even then it's as a martial weapon in the hands of a dwarf. I like the idea because it throws in a bit more flavour and might actually encourage someone to use the damn things. Not to mention, as a DM it means I can throw them around a bit in the hands of Orc and Half-Orc opponents without having to burn a feat on them. I like the idea of throwing in some flavour to the weapons enemies use so it's not just the standard pile of greatswords and spiked chains. I mean the players might min/max about which weapons are the most powerful but that doesn't mean all the NPCs should. And it's not just a game mechanics thing, it could be cultural significance. I think it just adds a lot of flavour to the races you fight. Plus, it helps limit the impact of magical equipment. For instance, I might throw a really powerful orc double axe into the hands of a BBEG if I know no one in the party is proficient in it and it will just end up being cashed in later, I can control that a lot better than if it's a greatsword or something. Plus again, it's just more flavourful.
NiQil 04-08-07, 02:00 AM	There is a feat (in Complete Warrior, I believe) that, if taken, grants your character proficiency in any weapon that bears the race as a part of the weapon name. So non-martial proficient dwarves could take it to be proficient with the waraxe, urgrosh and buckler-axe....elves can take it for the various 'blades that are around....and half-orcs and orcs can take it for the double-axe. In a sidebar near this feat, it is also suggested as an alternate rule that your DM may wish to grant the feat for free to all players.
Frugal 04-08-07, 10:13 AM	There is a feat (in Complete Warrior, I believe) that, if taken, grants your character proficiency in any weapon that bears the race as a part of the weapon name. So non-martial proficient dwarves could take it to be proficient with the waraxe, urgrosh and buckler-axe....elves can take it for the various 'blades that are around....and half-orcs and orcs can take it for the double-axe. In a sidebar near this feat, it is also suggested as an alternate rule that your DM may wish to grant the feat for free to all players. The feat is improved weapon familiarity and just gives you familiarity (treat the exotic as a martial) so it still doesn't help those not proficient with martial. I don't have a problem with some racial weapons being exotic if I feel like they're just too esoteric or would unbalance things too much but I really don't see that issue with half-orcs getting the doulbe axe and replacing elves' free proficiencies with the rapier and longsword with familiarity with the elven blades. Plus, depending on which race you are, that feat can be either really good or totally useless.