Falling into lava through a hole. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Falling into lava through a hole. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
high_and_mighty
04-06-07, 04:40 AM Hi this is my first post.

I just died in the game I'm playing and I'm not competely sure if I should have. So two people in our group climbed the wall of a castle to get inside and open the front gate. After doing so I walk in, fail a spot check..., and promtly fall through a hole into lava because I didn't look before I went in. Then I burned to death

I wasn't happy but can understand that happens. About twenty minutes later though I remember that as an elf I was entitled a search check (which I was much better at) for concealed or secret doors/portals. I know its a bit of a stretch but isn't a hole in the ground just a horizontal door/portal and if I didn't know about the hole wouldn't it be like it is hidden from me? I brough this up with the dm and he said "no."

So am I just being a cry baby or what?
Azarias
04-06-07, 07:16 AM Hi. Lava huh? That bites. Or burns. Anyway...

(1) Long and short of it: talk to your DM about this a bit more. Check what type of adventure this one is. Specifically, you want to know whether this kind of 'Rocks fall: you die' scenario is specific to this adventure, or whether it's the kind of thing you should expect from him all the time.

(2) If your DM tells you that this adventure is a special Deathtrap Dungeon-type affair, then the best thing to do is go ahead and treat it like one. These types of adventure are a particular type of entertainment...the type where the PCs will fall into lava pits, Spheres of Annihilation, lava pits full of centipede swarms from the elemental plane of fire (now that really would bite), and so on. The fun here is less in the roleplaying and more in the spectacularity of the deaths. To take that kind of thing on the chin, don't invest too much time or energy in your next character. Just roll 'em up and send 'em out in full knowledge that they're liable to explode at any moment. It's a particular kind of fun, that, but if you go with it you may enjoy it.

(3) If your DM instead tells you that falling into lava pits is par for the course, that any fantasy castle worth its salt will have a subterranean lava lake, and that you can expect more of the same for the forseeable future...well, then talk to him a bit more. Explain to him what you hope to get out of the game. After all, one of the greatest pleasures of d&d is the creation and development of characters. There's nothing like watching that 1st level elf fighter grow up into the greatest duelist in the north. If your DM is running one Deathtrap after another, that's never going to happen. Lava-pits get old very fast for that reason. Explain to him that you spent umpteen working hours creating your character, and that the idea of doing the same thing again, and then seeing the same thing happen again, is soul-destroying. Hopefully he'll get the message.

(4) Leaving the game is the least desirable outcome here, both for you and for the DM. So try and sort things out as detailed above. But if it really turns out that he's totally addicted to lava, and you really want to run a character over the long term, then finding a new game is what you have to do. But give him a bit of time first. It might be that he's new to this, and lava just seemed too cool an idea to pass up - in which case, he'll probably tire of it almost as quickly as you do.

- Elfs and secret doors: this would have provided a good get-out for the DM, but if he's said no to it then don't push him. His word needs to be final and you both need to get used to that.

Good luck,
Az.
high_and_mighty
04-06-07, 07:50 AM Thanks for the quick reply.

He really wasn't trying to kill me since he gave me several other chances to survive... First the spot check then a reflex save to avoid falling down then another reflex save to grab a chain that was hanging nearby. I made that save then I failed a strength check to hold on to said chain. Next I used a lasso I had to try and hook that onto something made that check and failed another strength check and fell into the lava.

Then it turns out the castle is seriously tainted and that my soul will remain burning in the lava for all time. He will continue to try and swim out of it but other souls keep pulling him back down:(

The dm hasn't really down anything like this without some sort of warning before so it wasn't expected at all. It was like sweet the other guys are done getting their own private session in the middle of the game. (My wizard was resting a bit away from the castle while the melee guys got the gates open. Took about 30 min. real time for them to get it done.) The door was opened and I step in... oops I'm dead. Its ok and it certainly won't cause any long term problems. I was just curious if it all could have been prevented with the elves natural ability to sense hidden portals with a search check.

Side question: I need a new character but am restricted to phb phb2 Oriental Adventures and Frostburn. The group has a Barb2/Fighter2, a Fighter4(captain america), a druid4, bard4, and a ranger4. I'm guessing I should be another caster. I am considering beguiler.

Thank you for your help
mythSSK
04-06-07, 08:11 AM So your DM assumed your wizard covered his eyes and walked into the gate? Because it's totally normal to not at all look where you're going?

I'm just trying to clarify what exactly happened, and this is how you're describing it.

From what I can see, this is a stupid situation and your DM really sucks.
high_and_mighty
04-06-07, 08:35 AM No I figured I would be walking in with my eyes open and looking around for danger (this was an enemy stronghold after all) but he felt I would need to make a spot check to notice a long and relatively thin hole in the floor. Let me see if I can explain it better.

Here it is with what happened before hand. Basically the massive gates were covered in ice. The barb/fighter had to apply some extra muscle on the gate house gears to get the the gates open and break all the ice on them. Due to the extra force used the gates swung open really fast and slammed into the walls and caused a slight avalanche. Also when the gate opened all the snow around the gate melted fairly rapidly. I told the dm I was walking in. He said make a spot check (to see the section of removed floor that was about two to three feet wide and stretched from one side of the gate to the other.) I failed the check and then proceeded with the series of checks mentioned in my last post ending with my death and the damnation of my soul.

I am still confused as to why my character wouldn't be able to notice such a large thing without a spot or search check.

I feel like I just said what I have already said but I can't think of anything else to add at the moment. Hope its cleared up my side.
Kradlo
04-06-07, 09:12 AM Missing a trap is one thing. Missing a hole large enough to fall through is another. If the hole was obscured by snow or ice (the avalanche), you might fail to see the hole, and the rest could fall in with you as you crash through.

But if the hole was not partly covered, and was large enough for an elf to fall through it, unless there was little or no light, you'd see it without a Spot check.

It is good that he gave you several chances, including the Reflex save to avoid falling in, the Reflex save to grab the chain, and an attempt to pull yourself out of the lava.

The Strength check to pull yourself up the chain should have been a Climb check, not an ability check. If you had no ranks in Climb, it amounts to the same thing, but note that you don't fall unless you miss the DC by 5 or more.

Ultimately, though, characters can die. Being bound for eternity in tainted lava, is a particularly unpleasant end, though. Sounds like he's running a horror campaign. Good luck!
Cartigan
04-06-07, 09:17 AM After doing so I walk in, fail a spot check.....and promtly fall through a hole into lava because I didn't look before I went in.
You would have to roll a 1 to not notice an uncovered hole big enough for you to fall through
PhaedrusXY
04-06-07, 11:01 AM Yeah, this is pretty stupid. A trap is one thing. A plainly visible big hole in the ground? Please. :rolleyes:
Hsien
04-06-07, 01:53 PM Maybe he took some flaws from Unearthed Arcana.
Had one character that took 2 of them and ended up with a -8 Spot check. DM was ok with it as long as I rolled played that to the hilt and it was a blast. Lava would have been no problem for him though, The Heat Mizer.

An open and not hidden or disguised hole big enough to fall though, with a chain hanging down through it(?) is real obvious. There's a difference in having to spot something and seeing something that is in plain sight.
Does your DM make you take spot checks when you eat your lunch? how about when you want to draw a weapon?
I have Quick draw, therefore can draw my weapon as a free action in combat, unfortunately I to make a spot check to see if I can locate the hilt/handle. Whats the DC? Can I take 10 on that?

Ok thats extreme I realize, but I must have failed my spot check as well, because I just can't see why one was required based on the info you gave.
high_and_mighty
04-06-07, 05:34 PM Missing a trap is one thing. Missing a hole large enough to fall through is another. If the hole was obscured by snow or ice (the avalanche), you might fail to see the hole, and the rest could fall in with you as you crash through.

But if the hole was not partly covered, and was large enough for an elf to fall through it, unless there was little or no light, you'd see it without a Spot check.

It is good that he gave you several chances, including the Reflex save to avoid falling in, the Reflex save to grab the chain, and an attempt to pull yourself out of the lava.

The Strength check to pull yourself up the chain should have been a Climb check, not an ability check. If you had no ranks in Climb, it amounts to the same thing, but note that you don't fall unless you miss the DC by 5 or more.

Ultimately, though, characters can die. Being bound for eternity in tainted lava, is a particularly unpleasant end, though. Sounds like he's running a horror campaign. Good luck!

Not a horror campaign. He is a born again Christian and the place was evil and so was my character. I think it added some flair to my characters death. Also the strength check was to see if while falling I would be strong enough to hold onto a rope after I stopped my momentum.

To Cartigan: not a 1 but I rolled a 3 for a total of 6 for the spot check.

To Hsien: I wished he was using books like UA. He is using very few books even though we have access to a lot more. (personally I wanted to be a winged dragon born goliath wielding a spiked chain) His decision was based purely on me saying I walk into the castle without saying I look around first.

I really appreciate all your help guys. Let me say this though this is the first time he has done anything like this and I have been gaming with him for years. Hell he helped me get into role playing. So please refain from name calling if you can.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
high_and_mighty 04-06-07, 04:40 AM	Hi this is my first post. I just died in the game I'm playing and I'm not competely sure if I should have. So two people in our group climbed the wall of a castle to get inside and open the front gate. After doing so I walk in, fail a spot check..., and promtly fall through a hole into lava because I didn't look before I went in. Then I burned to death I wasn't happy but can understand that happens. About twenty minutes later though I remember that as an elf I was entitled a search check (which I was much better at) for concealed or secret doors/portals. I know its a bit of a stretch but isn't a hole in the ground just a horizontal door/portal and if I didn't know about the hole wouldn't it be like it is hidden from me? I brough this up with the dm and he said "no." So am I just being a cry baby or what?
Azarias 04-06-07, 07:16 AM	Hi. Lava huh? That bites. Or burns. Anyway... (1) Long and short of it: talk to your DM about this a bit more. Check what type of adventure this one is. Specifically, you want to know whether this kind of 'Rocks fall: you die' scenario is specific to this adventure, or whether it's the kind of thing you should expect from him all the time. (2) If your DM tells you that this adventure is a special Deathtrap Dungeon-type affair, then the best thing to do is go ahead and treat it like one. These types of adventure are a particular type of entertainment...the type where the PCs will fall into lava pits, Spheres of Annihilation, lava pits full of centipede swarms from the elemental plane of fire (now that really would bite), and so on. The fun here is less in the roleplaying and more in the spectacularity of the deaths. To take that kind of thing on the chin, don't invest too much time or energy in your next character. Just roll 'em up and send 'em out in full knowledge that they're liable to explode at any moment. It's a particular kind of fun, that, but if you go with it you may enjoy it. (3) If your DM instead tells you that falling into lava pits is par for the course, that any fantasy castle worth its salt will have a subterranean lava lake, and that you can expect more of the same for the forseeable future...well, then talk to him a bit more. Explain to him what you hope to get out of the game. After all, one of the greatest pleasures of d&d is the creation and development of characters. There's nothing like watching that 1st level elf fighter grow up into the greatest duelist in the north. If your DM is running one Deathtrap after another, that's never going to happen. Lava-pits get old very fast for that reason. Explain to him that you spent umpteen working hours creating your character, and that the idea of doing the same thing again, and then seeing the same thing happen again, is soul-destroying. Hopefully he'll get the message. (4) Leaving the game is the least desirable outcome here, both for you and for the DM. So try and sort things out as detailed above. But if it really turns out that he's totally addicted to lava, and you really want to run a character over the long term, then finding a new game is what you have to do. But give him a bit of time first. It might be that he's new to this, and lava just seemed too cool an idea to pass up - in which case, he'll probably tire of it almost as quickly as you do. - Elfs and secret doors: this would have provided a good get-out for the DM, but if he's said no to it then don't push him. His word needs to be final and you both need to get used to that. Good luck, Az.
high_and_mighty 04-06-07, 07:50 AM	Thanks for the quick reply. He really wasn't trying to kill me since he gave me several other chances to survive... First the spot check then a reflex save to avoid falling down then another reflex save to grab a chain that was hanging nearby. I made that save then I failed a strength check to hold on to said chain. Next I used a lasso I had to try and hook that onto something made that check and failed another strength check and fell into the lava. Then it turns out the castle is seriously tainted and that my soul will remain burning in the lava for all time. He will continue to try and swim out of it but other souls keep pulling him back down:( The dm hasn't really down anything like this without some sort of warning before so it wasn't expected at all. It was like sweet the other guys are done getting their own private session in the middle of the game. (My wizard was resting a bit away from the castle while the melee guys got the gates open. Took about 30 min. real time for them to get it done.) The door was opened and I step in... oops I'm dead. Its ok and it certainly won't cause any long term problems. I was just curious if it all could have been prevented with the elves natural ability to sense hidden portals with a search check. Side question: I need a new character but am restricted to phb phb2 Oriental Adventures and Frostburn. The group has a Barb2/Fighter2, a Fighter4(captain america), a druid4, bard4, and a ranger4. I'm guessing I should be another caster. I am considering beguiler. Thank you for your help
mythSSK 04-06-07, 08:11 AM	So your DM assumed your wizard covered his eyes and walked into the gate? Because it's totally normal to not at all look where you're going? I'm just trying to clarify what exactly happened, and this is how you're describing it. From what I can see, this is a stupid situation and your DM really sucks.
high_and_mighty 04-06-07, 08:35 AM	No I figured I would be walking in with my eyes open and looking around for danger (this was an enemy stronghold after all) but he felt I would need to make a spot check to notice a long and relatively thin hole in the floor. Let me see if I can explain it better. Here it is with what happened before hand. Basically the massive gates were covered in ice. The barb/fighter had to apply some extra muscle on the gate house gears to get the the gates open and break all the ice on them. Due to the extra force used the gates swung open really fast and slammed into the walls and caused a slight avalanche. Also when the gate opened all the snow around the gate melted fairly rapidly. I told the dm I was walking in. He said make a spot check (to see the section of removed floor that was about two to three feet wide and stretched from one side of the gate to the other.) I failed the check and then proceeded with the series of checks mentioned in my last post ending with my death and the damnation of my soul. I am still confused as to why my character wouldn't be able to notice such a large thing without a spot or search check. I feel like I just said what I have already said but I can't think of anything else to add at the moment. Hope its cleared up my side.
Kradlo 04-06-07, 09:12 AM	Missing a trap is one thing. Missing a hole large enough to fall through is another. If the hole was obscured by snow or ice (the avalanche), you might fail to see the hole, and the rest could fall in with you as you crash through. But if the hole was not partly covered, and was large enough for an elf to fall through it, unless there was little or no light, you'd see it without a Spot check. It is good that he gave you several chances, including the Reflex save to avoid falling in, the Reflex save to grab the chain, and an attempt to pull yourself out of the lava. The Strength check to pull yourself up the chain should have been a Climb check, not an ability check. If you had no ranks in Climb, it amounts to the same thing, but note that you don't fall unless you miss the DC by 5 or more. Ultimately, though, characters can die. Being bound for eternity in tainted lava, is a particularly unpleasant end, though. Sounds like he's running a horror campaign. Good luck!
Cartigan 04-06-07, 09:17 AM	After doing so I walk in, fail a spot check.....and promtly fall through a hole into lava because I didn't look before I went in. You would have to roll a 1 to not notice an uncovered hole big enough for you to fall through
PhaedrusXY 04-06-07, 11:01 AM	Yeah, this is pretty stupid. A trap is one thing. A plainly visible big hole in the ground? Please. :rolleyes:
Hsien 04-06-07, 01:53 PM	Maybe he took some flaws from Unearthed Arcana. Had one character that took 2 of them and ended up with a -8 Spot check. DM was ok with it as long as I rolled played that to the hilt and it was a blast. Lava would have been no problem for him though, The Heat Mizer. An open and not hidden or disguised hole big enough to fall though, with a chain hanging down through it(?) is real obvious. There's a difference in having to spot something and seeing something that is in plain sight. Does your DM make you take spot checks when you eat your lunch? how about when you want to draw a weapon? I have Quick draw, therefore can draw my weapon as a free action in combat, unfortunately I to make a spot check to see if I can locate the hilt/handle. Whats the DC? Can I take 10 on that? Ok thats extreme I realize, but I must have failed my spot check as well, because I just can't see why one was required based on the info you gave.
high_and_mighty 04-06-07, 05:34 PM	Missing a trap is one thing. Missing a hole large enough to fall through is another. If the hole was obscured by snow or ice (the avalanche), you might fail to see the hole, and the rest could fall in with you as you crash through. But if the hole was not partly covered, and was large enough for an elf to fall through it, unless there was little or no light, you'd see it without a Spot check. It is good that he gave you several chances, including the Reflex save to avoid falling in, the Reflex save to grab the chain, and an attempt to pull yourself out of the lava. The Strength check to pull yourself up the chain should have been a Climb check, not an ability check. If you had no ranks in Climb, it amounts to the same thing, but note that you don't fall unless you miss the DC by 5 or more. Ultimately, though, characters can die. Being bound for eternity in tainted lava, is a particularly unpleasant end, though. Sounds like he's running a horror campaign. Good luck! Not a horror campaign. He is a born again Christian and the place was evil and so was my character. I think it added some flair to my characters death. Also the strength check was to see if while falling I would be strong enough to hold onto a rope after I stopped my momentum. To Cartigan: not a 1 but I rolled a 3 for a total of 6 for the spot check. To Hsien: I wished he was using books like UA. He is using very few books even though we have access to a lot more. (personally I wanted to be a winged dragon born goliath wielding a spiked chain) His decision was based purely on me saying I walk into the castle without saying I look around first. I really appreciate all your help guys. Let me say this though this is the first time he has done anything like this and I have been gaming with him for years. Hell he helped me get into role playing. So please refain from name calling if you can.