Familiar worth two feats? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Familiar worth two feats? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Serge_P
09-03-07, 02:03 PM Is a Familiar worth two feats? (For an Assassin? I was thinking of Acquire familiar and exalted familiar for a Coure Eladrin).

Are familiars good? And are they good for an assassin? And is a coure eladrin worth 2 feat that could have been things like fearless destiny or leadership or luck or other?
DM Zoc
09-03-07, 02:16 PM Familiars are very useful in many situations. However, they are also a huge liability; your familiar only has half as many hit points as you do, and if it dies then you might as well (you lose experience, either way).
sparkster4242
09-03-07, 10:24 PM in oh, three or four different books, not gaining a familiar has been presented as a flaw - the benefit? you get a feat, instead.

given that, i would have to say that a familiar is worth about as much as one feat, but not two.
Kouk
09-03-07, 10:33 PM What would you use this Familiar for?

Combat is generally something that should be avoided with a Familiar so I am thinking it is not worth spending two feats on it for a "typical" Assassin, though it may be good for scouting out areas or helping you in other ways.
Fireclave
09-03-07, 10:39 PM Unless you already get a familiar as a class feature or have a very good plan for using it, a familiar is probably not worth a two feat investment. You should probably consider the Leadership instead if you're DM will allow it.

(For an Assassin? I was thinking of Acquire familiar and exalted familiar for a Coure Eladrin).
I think the feats you're talking about are Obtain Familiar (CA) and Celestrial Familair (BoeD). If this is the case, you can't qualify for an exhaulted familiar because you must have a good alignment, and the Assassin class requires you to be evil.
Puca
09-04-07, 10:25 AM There are really two questions here:
Is a familiar worth it for an assassin, and
If so, is the Coure Eladrin worth yet another feat.

As for the second question, I dont know. I dont have BoED, have never liked it. But in general, Id say no.

As to the first, yes, a familiar could be very good for an assassin. Assassins have decent skills and tend to come from base classes, like the rogue, with great skills.

Since your familiar uses the same skill-ranks you do, having a highly skilled master can make them very effective scouts and spies, which is handy for someone who likes to catch people unaware.
Serge_P
09-04-07, 10:58 AM If this is the case, you can't qualify for an exhaulted familiar because you must have a good alignment, and the Assassin class requires you to be evil.

Evil in the beginning only!

And he'll only have 3 levels (5 effective levels due to uncanny trickster).

And it's a non alignment, only religion campaign variant, and his CG deity believes that it's OK to become an Assassin only to learn good things like Death Attack, but only if you use what you have learned for goodness and good reasons. (I.E. Kill a Capitalist*, or Plutocrat*, Or Tyrant, or a BBEG)

*(In his religion, Capitalism and plutocracy is Evil)
TiwazTyrsfist
09-04-07, 06:07 PM So you've got houseruling to remove the 'WTF Exalted Familiar for an Assassin?' problem... I will leave that alone then.

On to the main question.

I, for one, always like Improved Familiar. If I play a sorcerer or wizard, I invariably take Improved Familiar at some point. I think it's definately worth a feat.

Acquire familiar is where we get into interesting quesitons.
Firstly, if you have a familiar, you gain the benefit of the alertness feat when it's within arms reach. So, in addition to a familiar, you gain another free feat...
Second, consider something other than a coule Eldarin. For example, consider taking a standard familiar and adding a template to it. Celestial for example. Why? Here's why.
The 'special' familiars you get from improved familiar generally don't give you a bonus the way that normal familiars do. A toad familiar gives you +3 hp. A coule eldarin doesn't. A celestial toad familiar however does. It's more powerful, has nifty flavor, has some nice added abilities, and still gives you your normal familiar bonuses.

Smite Evil (Su)

Once per day a celestial creature can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD (maximum of +20) against an evil foe.
Special Qualities

A celestial creature retains all the special qualities of the base creature and also gains the following qualities.

* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Damage reduction (see the table below).
* Resistance to acid, cold, and electricity (see the table below).
* Spell resistance equal to HD + 5 (maximum 25).

Hit Dice Resistance to Acid,
Cold, Electricity Damage Reduction
1-3 5 —
4-7 5 5/magic
8-11 10 5/magic
12 or more 10 10/magic

If the base creature already has one or more of these special qualities, use the better value.

If a celestial creature gains damage reduction, its natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Something to think about, Celestial familiar...
Einvaldurinn_mikli
09-04-07, 06:21 PM in oh, three or four different books, not gaining a familiar has been presented as a flaw - the benefit? you get a feat, instead.

given that, i would have to say that a familiar is worth about as much as one feat, but not two.

Which books would this be? I am quite interested in this variant.
Bloodsoul
09-05-07, 12:37 AM Ooh, now this does sound interesting. After seeing the stats another member gave for Soul Calibur's Aiselne Drossel, and the Obtain Familiar Feat, maybe I out to try to make a Tira character with her ravens?

I could never wrap myself around the idea of using Improved Familiar, mainly 'cause I'm a sentimental fool when it comes to using the very same familiar I started off with, although there are some interesting choices there.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Serge_P 09-03-07, 02:03 PM	Is a Familiar worth two feats? (For an Assassin? I was thinking of Acquire familiar and exalted familiar for a Coure Eladrin). Are familiars good? And are they good for an assassin? And is a coure eladrin worth 2 feat that could have been things like fearless destiny or leadership or luck or other?
DM Zoc 09-03-07, 02:16 PM	Familiars are very useful in many situations. However, they are also a huge liability; your familiar only has half as many hit points as you do, and if it dies then you might as well (you lose experience, either way).
sparkster4242 09-03-07, 10:24 PM	in oh, three or four different books, not gaining a familiar has been presented as a flaw - the benefit? you get a feat, instead. given that, i would have to say that a familiar is worth about as much as one feat, but not two.
Kouk 09-03-07, 10:33 PM	What would you use this Familiar for? Combat is generally something that should be avoided with a Familiar so I am thinking it is not worth spending two feats on it for a "typical" Assassin, though it may be good for scouting out areas or helping you in other ways.
Fireclave 09-03-07, 10:39 PM	Unless you already get a familiar as a class feature or have a very good plan for using it, a familiar is probably not worth a two feat investment. You should probably consider the Leadership instead if you're DM will allow it. (For an Assassin? I was thinking of Acquire familiar and exalted familiar for a Coure Eladrin). I think the feats you're talking about are Obtain Familiar (CA) and Celestrial Familair (BoeD). If this is the case, you can't qualify for an exhaulted familiar because you must have a good alignment, and the Assassin class requires you to be evil.
Puca 09-04-07, 10:25 AM	There are really two questions here: Is a familiar worth it for an assassin, and If so, is the Coure Eladrin worth yet another feat. As for the second question, I dont know. I dont have BoED, have never liked it. But in general, Id say no. As to the first, yes, a familiar could be very good for an assassin. Assassins have decent skills and tend to come from base classes, like the rogue, with great skills. Since your familiar uses the same skill-ranks you do, having a highly skilled master can make them very effective scouts and spies, which is handy for someone who likes to catch people unaware.
Serge_P 09-04-07, 10:58 AM	If this is the case, you can't qualify for an exhaulted familiar because you must have a good alignment, and the Assassin class requires you to be evil. Evil in the beginning only! And he'll only have 3 levels (5 effective levels due to uncanny trickster). And it's a non alignment, only religion campaign variant, and his CG deity believes that it's OK to become an Assassin only to learn good things like Death Attack, but only if you use what you have learned for goodness and good reasons. (I.E. Kill a Capitalist, or Plutocrat, Or Tyrant, or a BBEG) *(In his religion, Capitalism and plutocracy is Evil)
TiwazTyrsfist 09-04-07, 06:07 PM	So you've got houseruling to remove the 'WTF Exalted Familiar for an Assassin?' problem... I will leave that alone then. On to the main question. I, for one, always like Improved Familiar. If I play a sorcerer or wizard, I invariably take Improved Familiar at some point. I think it's definately worth a feat. Acquire familiar is where we get into interesting quesitons. Firstly, if you have a familiar, you gain the benefit of the alertness feat when it's within arms reach. So, in addition to a familiar, you gain another free feat... Second, consider something other than a coule Eldarin. For example, consider taking a standard familiar and adding a template to it. Celestial for example. Why? Here's why. The 'special' familiars you get from improved familiar generally don't give you a bonus the way that normal familiars do. A toad familiar gives you +3 hp. A coule eldarin doesn't. A celestial toad familiar however does. It's more powerful, has nifty flavor, has some nice added abilities, and still gives you your normal familiar bonuses. Smite Evil (Su) Once per day a celestial creature can make a normal melee attack to deal extra damage equal to its HD (maximum of +20) against an evil foe. Special Qualities A celestial creature retains all the special qualities of the base creature and also gains the following qualities. * Darkvision out to 60 feet. * Damage reduction (see the table below). * Resistance to acid, cold, and electricity (see the table below). * Spell resistance equal to HD + 5 (maximum 25). Hit Dice Resistance to Acid, Cold, Electricity Damage Reduction 1-3 5 — 4-7 5 5/magic 8-11 10 5/magic 12 or more 10 10/magic If the base creature already has one or more of these special qualities, use the better value. If a celestial creature gains damage reduction, its natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Something to think about, Celestial familiar...
Einvaldurinn_mikli 09-04-07, 06:21 PM	in oh, three or four different books, not gaining a familiar has been presented as a flaw - the benefit? you get a feat, instead. given that, i would have to say that a familiar is worth about as much as one feat, but not two. Which books would this be? I am quite interested in this variant.
Bloodsoul 09-05-07, 12:37 AM	Ooh, now this does sound interesting. After seeing the stats another member gave for Soul Calibur's Aiselne Drossel, and the Obtain Familiar Feat, maybe I out to try to make a Tira character with her ravens? I could never wrap myself around the idea of using Improved Familiar, mainly 'cause I'm a sentimental fool when it comes to using the very same familiar I started off with, although there are some interesting choices there.