Familiars and Speak Language [Archive] - Wizards Community

Familiars and Speak Language [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Candin
06-27-07, 09:45 PM So familiars get to use their ranks in skills or the ranks of their master. So, if I took two ranks in Speak Language, can I surmise that my familiar gets these two ranks in speak language and can subsequently learn a new language?

I have a monkey as a familiar and I'm trying to see if I can teach him common. Speak Language isn't a skill that it states a familiar can learn, but then again, no skill is.
Shadowfax7
06-27-07, 09:50 PM First, you don't gain ranks in Speak Language, you spend 2 skill points and learn to speak it.

Second, a familiar can't speak a language like common because it doesn't have the anatomy for speaking a human-like language.
jaelis
06-27-07, 09:58 PM What about a raven? I think even then it would take a somewhat lenient DM, since like Shadowfax says, you don't technically have "ranks" in speak language.
Candin
06-27-07, 10:20 PM I figured this would be a DM's discretion type of deal, but I thought I'd for all of your input.

I'm gonna' ask him next time we game if he'll let me. I'm not to particular about it either way, I just thought it'd be kind of cool.
Kouk
06-27-07, 11:01 PM I don't believe a familiar can speak every language you know, or else it would state that in the familiar descriptions.

If it could understand or speak any language you know, then there would be little point in taking a Raven familiar, because the main point of a Raven is that it can speak a language of your choice that you know. Normally, people teach their Raven to speak Common, so it can converse with most other creatures.

It would also negate the purpose of the Speak with Master ability that familiars gain at higher levels, which allows them to "speak" to their masters as using a verbal language that only the master and familiar can understand. This is not negated by the Raven's ability, because anyone else can also understand the Raven when it speak a normal language and it is only limited to a single language (many wizards know several obscure languages).

You certainly can have the familiar deliver notes for you, or deliver touch communication spells.

The Speak Language "skill" also states in its description that you do not actually put ranks in it, you just know it or you don't.
Adrez Nesnsid
07-05-07, 07:06 PM I would say that the familiar can speak any language that you have actually spent skill points to learn.
Vegepygmy
07-05-07, 07:29 PM I agree with Shadowfax7 and Kouk.
Adrez Nesnsid
07-07-07, 01:43 PM BUMP!! :bump:
Kouk
07-07-07, 03:05 PM BUMP!! :bump:

Why? hehe
Max Octavious Xavier
07-07-07, 05:16 PM ...a familiar can't speak a language like common because it doesn't have the anatomy for speaking a human-like language.

Yeah, what he said. I would allow a familiar to understand any lan the master knowns, but that doesn't mean he can speak it.
Adrez Nesnsid
07-07-07, 07:30 PM Second, a familiar can't speak a language like common because it doesn't have the anatomy for speaking a human-like language.

Yeah, what he said. I would allow a familiar to understand any lan the master knowns, but that doesn't mean he can speak it.

Ok, I'll give you that point, BUT that raises a further question, namely, is the familiar (/can it be) literate in those languages? If so than one could, theoretically, communicate with other literate creatures by writing out stuff by dragging its paw through the dirt (like in that scene in Terry Pratchett's book Small Gods). I think that in general they should be. Additionally/Furthermore, the specific familiar mentioned in this thread's first post is a bit of a special case.

I have a monkey as a familiar and I'm trying to see if I can teach him common. Speak Language isn't a skill that it states a familiar can learn, but then again, no skill is.

Regarding the literacy issue, if you rule that the monkey familiar is literate, then it should theoretically have the fine manipulation skills needed to actually be able to write stuff out on paper. Also, even real world, totally non-magical monkeys can be taught to recognize and understand a handful of words (spoken or written) or symbols (albeit not as many as apes can learn); Think how much a monkey with magically enhanced intelligence could learn.
Phalo
07-07-07, 07:49 PM Side note ravens while not able to speak sentences can speak words and mimic dogs barking. Corvids are remarkable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Raven#Vocalization
Max Octavious Xavier
07-07-07, 08:05 PM Ok, I'll give you that point, BUT that raises a further question, namely, is the familiar (/can it be) literate in those languages? If so than one could, theoretically, communicate with other literate creatures by writing out stuff by dragging its paw through the dirt ....

Hmm, that is a very good point. I've never thought about that and don't have a decent answer. I would say this is DM interpretation of the spirit of familiars and communication rather than RAW.
Shadowfax7
07-07-07, 09:09 PM is the familiar (/can it be) literate in those languages? If so than one could, theoretically, communicate with other literate creatures by writing out stuff by dragging its paw through the dirt (like in that scene in Terry Pratchett's book Small Gods). I think that in general they should be.I would allow a familiar to read and write (but not in good "handwriting") a language it's master knows. A paw or claw can only write so good. Roleplay it by not making it fully understandable.

if you rule that the monkey familiar is literate, then it should theoretically have the fine manipulation skills needed to actually be able to write stuff out on paper.To write well you need a fully opposable thumb and an index finger. Monkeys, albeit close, still don't have human hands. I would go with what I said above at varying degrees depending on the animal's "hands".
Adrez Nesnsid
07-07-07, 09:19 PM I didn't say that the monkey would be able to write well. I think that the monkey would be able to write about NEARLY as legibly with a pencil, as those other familiars would be able to write in the dirt. (For an example, try writing something using a pen or pencil held inside of your fist, instead of being held normally. It'll look horrible, but it'll be there, and it'll be writing).
Adrez Nesnsid
10-03-07, 07:25 PM :bump:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Candin 06-27-07, 09:45 PM	So familiars get to use their ranks in skills or the ranks of their master. So, if I took two ranks in Speak Language, can I surmise that my familiar gets these two ranks in speak language and can subsequently learn a new language? I have a monkey as a familiar and I'm trying to see if I can teach him common. Speak Language isn't a skill that it states a familiar can learn, but then again, no skill is.
Shadowfax7 06-27-07, 09:50 PM	First, you don't gain ranks in Speak Language, you spend 2 skill points and learn to speak it. Second, a familiar can't speak a language like common because it doesn't have the anatomy for speaking a human-like language.
jaelis 06-27-07, 09:58 PM	What about a raven? I think even then it would take a somewhat lenient DM, since like Shadowfax says, you don't technically have "ranks" in speak language.
Candin 06-27-07, 10:20 PM	I figured this would be a DM's discretion type of deal, but I thought I'd for all of your input. I'm gonna' ask him next time we game if he'll let me. I'm not to particular about it either way, I just thought it'd be kind of cool.
Kouk 06-27-07, 11:01 PM	I don't believe a familiar can speak every language you know, or else it would state that in the familiar descriptions. If it could understand or speak any language you know, then there would be little point in taking a Raven familiar, because the main point of a Raven is that it can speak a language of your choice that you know. Normally, people teach their Raven to speak Common, so it can converse with most other creatures. It would also negate the purpose of the Speak with Master ability that familiars gain at higher levels, which allows them to "speak" to their masters as using a verbal language that only the master and familiar can understand. This is not negated by the Raven's ability, because anyone else can also understand the Raven when it speak a normal language and it is only limited to a single language (many wizards know several obscure languages). You certainly can have the familiar deliver notes for you, or deliver touch communication spells. The Speak Language "skill" also states in its description that you do not actually put ranks in it, you just know it or you don't.
Adrez Nesnsid 07-05-07, 07:06 PM	I would say that the familiar can speak any language that you have actually spent skill points to learn.
Vegepygmy 07-05-07, 07:29 PM	I agree with Shadowfax7 and Kouk.
Adrez Nesnsid 07-07-07, 01:43 PM	BUMP!! :bump:
Kouk 07-07-07, 03:05 PM	BUMP!! :bump: Why? hehe
Max Octavious Xavier 07-07-07, 05:16 PM	...a familiar can't speak a language like common because it doesn't have the anatomy for speaking a human-like language. Yeah, what he said. I would allow a familiar to understand any lan the master knowns, but that doesn't mean he can speak it.
Adrez Nesnsid 07-07-07, 07:30 PM	Second, a familiar can't speak a language like common because it doesn't have the anatomy for speaking a human-like language. Yeah, what he said. I would allow a familiar to understand any lan the master knowns, but that doesn't mean he can speak it. Ok, I'll give you that point, BUT that raises a further question, namely, is the familiar (/can it be) literate in those languages? If so than one could, theoretically, communicate with other literate creatures by writing out stuff by dragging its paw through the dirt (like in that scene in Terry Pratchett's book Small Gods). I think that in general they should be. Additionally/Furthermore, the specific familiar mentioned in this thread's first post is a bit of a special case. I have a monkey as a familiar and I'm trying to see if I can teach him common. Speak Language isn't a skill that it states a familiar can learn, but then again, no skill is. Regarding the literacy issue, if you rule that the monkey familiar is literate, then it should theoretically have the fine manipulation skills needed to actually be able to write stuff out on paper. Also, even real world, totally non-magical monkeys can be taught to recognize and understand a handful of words (spoken or written) or symbols (albeit not as many as apes can learn); Think how much a monkey with magically enhanced intelligence could learn.
Phalo 07-07-07, 07:49 PM	Side note ravens while not able to speak sentences can speak words and mimic dogs barking. Corvids are remarkable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Raven#Vocalization
Max Octavious Xavier 07-07-07, 08:05 PM	Ok, I'll give you that point, BUT that raises a further question, namely, is the familiar (/can it be) literate in those languages? If so than one could, theoretically, communicate with other literate creatures by writing out stuff by dragging its paw through the dirt .... Hmm, that is a very good point. I've never thought about that and don't have a decent answer. I would say this is DM interpretation of the spirit of familiars and communication rather than RAW.
Shadowfax7 07-07-07, 09:09 PM	is the familiar (/can it be) literate in those languages? If so than one could, theoretically, communicate with other literate creatures by writing out stuff by dragging its paw through the dirt (like in that scene in Terry Pratchett's book Small Gods). I think that in general they should be.I would allow a familiar to read and write (but not in good "handwriting") a language it's master knows. A paw or claw can only write so good. Roleplay it by not making it fully understandable. if you rule that the monkey familiar is literate, then it should theoretically have the fine manipulation skills needed to actually be able to write stuff out on paper.To write well you need a fully opposable thumb and an index finger. Monkeys, albeit close, still don't have human hands. I would go with what I said above at varying degrees depending on the animal's "hands".
Adrez Nesnsid 07-07-07, 09:19 PM	I didn't say that the monkey would be able to write well. I think that the monkey would be able to write about NEARLY as legibly with a pencil, as those other familiars would be able to write in the dirt. (For an example, try writing something using a pen or pencil held inside of your fist, instead of being held normally. It'll look horrible, but it'll be there, and it'll be writing).
Adrez Nesnsid 10-03-07, 07:25 PM	:bump: