Familiars, Elemental Envoys, Psicrystals, oh my... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Familiars, Elemental Envoys, Psicrystals, oh my... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DarkPawn
07-30-07, 03:08 PM Wanted some other opinions about an issue that is cropping up in a campaign I'm in. It has to do with familiars (improved familiar feat specifically), elemental envoys, and psicrystals.

Basically the argument is such:

One person claims that although summoned to serve a master, all three have their own personality. They are not mindless constructs that do whatever they are ordered to do. Or do they?

The example came up where the master orders one of the above to rush into certain death and if it would do so willingly? As it has a personality and such, could it openly refuse? Could it be afraid and not do as it is told in this situation?

Another side issue, if the master's alignment shifts to that opposed of the above creature (all three), could the creature actually argue and refuse to do things opposed to it's alignment?
DarkPawn
07-30-07, 03:12 PM As an added thought...do most people consider the above NPCs or are they simply mindless tools that do whatever their masters order them to?
Cindre2000
07-30-07, 04:26 PM See here for clarification. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0440.html)
DarkPawn
07-30-07, 04:34 PM See here for clarification. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0440.html)

Okay, well that sums up your opinion on the matter fairly effectively. ;)
Cindre2000
07-30-07, 07:08 PM Well, it is true. Familiars tend to be forgotten except when they come in handy. Players also assume familiars will do whatever they tell them to do.
Khatoblepas
07-30-07, 08:18 PM A Psicrystal's personality is an imprint of a part of you at the time of it's creation. It even asks you what type of personality it has. It's unbalanced and rather biased towards it's own personality type:
Heroic: We should go out in a blaze of glory! FOR THE HOOOOORRRDE! *charges*
Cowardice: Um, you go. I'll stay behind and.. um.. guard.. um.. myself.

Familiars are intelligent pets. They may do exactly as you say at the early levels, but when it starts being more intelligent than the party fighter, it'll start to second guess you, as it gets a clearer idea of it's identity.

Improved Familiars are slightly different, but still self-aware. If it's intelligent enough, and has a capability for learning, it's going to object to you using it as a tool.
DarkPawn
07-31-07, 01:19 AM Pretty much what I thought. The PC in question thinks of them as pretty much property or almost like a slave. I have suggested that this isn't the case at all.

I have also suggested that the DM may play the familiar, psicrystal or elemental envoy as an NPC, and this has been met with an unfavorable reaction.
Cindre2000
07-31-07, 10:11 AM I have also suggested that the DM may play the familiar, psicrystal or elemental envoy as an NPC, and this has been met with an unfavorable reaction.

Means more work for the DM.
pres_man
07-31-07, 05:52 PM Tell them to construct a golem, there you go.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarkPawn 07-30-07, 03:08 PM	Wanted some other opinions about an issue that is cropping up in a campaign I'm in. It has to do with familiars (improved familiar feat specifically), elemental envoys, and psicrystals. Basically the argument is such: One person claims that although summoned to serve a master, all three have their own personality. They are not mindless constructs that do whatever they are ordered to do. Or do they? The example came up where the master orders one of the above to rush into certain death and if it would do so willingly? As it has a personality and such, could it openly refuse? Could it be afraid and not do as it is told in this situation? Another side issue, if the master's alignment shifts to that opposed of the above creature (all three), could the creature actually argue and refuse to do things opposed to it's alignment?
DarkPawn 07-30-07, 03:12 PM	As an added thought...do most people consider the above NPCs or are they simply mindless tools that do whatever their masters order them to?
Cindre2000 07-30-07, 04:26 PM	See here for clarification. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0440.html)
DarkPawn 07-30-07, 04:34 PM	See here for clarification. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0440.html) Okay, well that sums up your opinion on the matter fairly effectively. ;)
Cindre2000 07-30-07, 07:08 PM	Well, it is true. Familiars tend to be forgotten except when they come in handy. Players also assume familiars will do whatever they tell them to do.
Khatoblepas 07-30-07, 08:18 PM	A Psicrystal's personality is an imprint of a part of you at the time of it's creation. It even asks you what type of personality it has. It's unbalanced and rather biased towards it's own personality type: Heroic: We should go out in a blaze of glory! FOR THE HOOOOORRRDE! charges Cowardice: Um, you go. I'll stay behind and.. um.. guard.. um.. myself. Familiars are intelligent pets. They may do exactly as you say at the early levels, but when it starts being more intelligent than the party fighter, it'll start to second guess you, as it gets a clearer idea of it's identity. Improved Familiars are slightly different, but still self-aware. If it's intelligent enough, and has a capability for learning, it's going to object to you using it as a tool.
DarkPawn 07-31-07, 01:19 AM	Pretty much what I thought. The PC in question thinks of them as pretty much property or almost like a slave. I have suggested that this isn't the case at all. I have also suggested that the DM may play the familiar, psicrystal or elemental envoy as an NPC, and this has been met with an unfavorable reaction.
Cindre2000 07-31-07, 10:11 AM	I have also suggested that the DM may play the familiar, psicrystal or elemental envoy as an NPC, and this has been met with an unfavorable reaction. Means more work for the DM.
pres_man 07-31-07, 05:52 PM	Tell them to construct a golem, there you go.