Faster Diplomacy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Faster Diplomacy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MysterYvil
12-21-07, 01:45 PM Changing others’ attitudes with Diplomacy generally takes at least 1 full minute (10 consecutive full-round actions). In some situations, this time requirement may greatly increase.

A rushed Diplomacy check can be made as a full-round action, but you take a –10 penalty on the check.

Is there a feat or class ability that negates or reduces the -10 penalty on a rushed Diplomacy check?
Quidam
12-21-07, 02:33 PM Take a level of Binder and bind Naberius- one of his abilities is just that.
Suspect_Unusual
12-21-07, 03:35 PM I'm fairly sure the Rogue Changeling substitution level gives an ability similar to this, or at least reduces the penalties thereof.
Novacat
12-21-07, 05:53 PM Charm Person: Because Diplomacy is for chumps.
Xart
12-21-07, 06:11 PM Charm Person: Because Diplomacy is for chumps.

Diplomacy is for roleplayers
Obsidianjaerc
12-22-07, 12:29 AM Diplomacy is for roleplayers

:rofl:
CryoSilver
12-22-07, 12:30 AM Diplomacy is for roleplayers

Psh; I fail to see how "I roll my Diplomacy check; did I beat the DC?" is more roleplaying than "I cast Charm person; did he fail his Will save?"
Novacat
12-22-07, 02:31 AM Diplomacy is for roleplayers
Everything is for roleplayers, depending on what role you're playing. However, as a general rule, Diplomacy is for diplomats. Last I checked, if you make your living killing things and taking their stuff, a diplomat you ain't. Charm Person is actually a practical way to achieve the effects of a Diplomacy check in only a single Standard Action.
1 ton ghost
12-22-07, 02:36 PM the Diplomacy system is retarded and terribly unrealistic.
for the current system, i think there is a Skill Trick in Comp.Scoundrel that lets you make another Diplo attempt post-haste, but nothing is coming to mind that negates the -10 penalty for rushing so to speak.
ideally, you gotta' hip shoot it. if ever there was a time to RP, that is it. you should consider race relations of acting delegates, bribes, their opening lines of praise/condescension, etc. so many variables to consider that trying to express it mechanically is damn near impossible.
yes, let them make a roll and all (don't pi$$ those ranks away), but allow for, and bear w/ me now, some creative expression and initiative on the PCs end. simply letting them solve all their problems w/ a d20 gets old quick...
Novacat
12-22-07, 03:29 PM the Diplomacy system is retarded and terribly unrealistic.
In that light, I have to recommend the Giant in the Playground's article (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html) on Diplomacy. Very seriously considering implementing a lot of his stuff for my next game. I can only say I hope someone at Wizards noticed him and got him on the 4th Edition team.
Voran
12-23-07, 07:24 PM Diplomacy is for roleplayers

The sad thing is, the ones that want to use diplomacy often end up being the ones who want to use it to totally depower and disarm their foe, THEN murder them, or rob them blind.

At least its not yet as awful as the SAGA SW stuff, with negotiation and Jedi using their skills to put an opponent waaay down on the condition track just by talking to them, THEN killing them with their lightsaber.
Kyuketsukiouji
12-24-07, 12:00 PM There is a feat or skill trick out there that lowers that -10 to -5.

As for saying that "Diplomacy is broken" or whatnot, it's not really. The problem with diplomacy is twofold:

1- DMs let themselves be talked into thinking "Friendly" and "Helpful" means "will betray their deep-seated principles and/or let themselves stupidly get slaughtered", but because it's not written that "no matter how friendly you get with a paladin, he won't kill babies if you ask him nicely".

and

2- WotC didn't bother listing out all sorts of circumstance modifiers any sensible DM naturally applies. You know like Target is a Greater Deity, and You Just Killed Target's Best Buddies...

Most "fixes" for Diplomacy are basically just that, adding in stuff that are basically Circumstance modifiers to the check. Once DMs start doing that, and realise that Diplomacy isn't mind control (at least at pre-epic levels), then it's smooth sailing from there on.

It should also be pointed out that Diplomacy is only to be used when the player using it is being honest. If you're lying ("Yeah, we're all buddies here, so why don't you put down your unholy blade and slug back an ale? We won't hurt you, honest!"), you're using Bluff, not Diplomacy, and that's a Sense Motive roll right there. In fact, if you're trying to use Diplomacy -while- Bluffing, that's 10 rounds of Sense Motive the other guy has to call you out on.
CryoSilver
12-24-07, 12:23 PM I agree with Kyuk(rest of name here).

In my mind, Friendly = your next door neighbor/coworker/acquaintance. He'll help you move, or get your mail for you. He may even lend you a couple hundred dollars if you promise to pay him back soon.

Helpful = Your best friend/family member. They'll help you do something illegal if the risk is low, lend you money without requiring immediate repayment and generally go out of their way to help you, though they won't usually expose themselves to great risk to do so.
MysterYvil
12-26-07, 03:33 PM Charm Person: Because Diplomacy is for chumps.Charm Person requires casting a spell at another creature, which in and of itself can be seen as an aggressive move.

Diplomacy is FAR less confrontational.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MysterYvil 12-21-07, 01:45 PM	Changing others’ attitudes with Diplomacy generally takes at least 1 full minute (10 consecutive full-round actions). In some situations, this time requirement may greatly increase. A rushed Diplomacy check can be made as a full-round action, but you take a –10 penalty on the check. Is there a feat or class ability that negates or reduces the -10 penalty on a rushed Diplomacy check?
Quidam 12-21-07, 02:33 PM	Take a level of Binder and bind Naberius- one of his abilities is just that.
Suspect_Unusual 12-21-07, 03:35 PM	I'm fairly sure the Rogue Changeling substitution level gives an ability similar to this, or at least reduces the penalties thereof.
Novacat 12-21-07, 05:53 PM	Charm Person: Because Diplomacy is for chumps.
Xart 12-21-07, 06:11 PM	Charm Person: Because Diplomacy is for chumps. Diplomacy is for roleplayers
Obsidianjaerc 12-22-07, 12:29 AM	Diplomacy is for roleplayers :rofl:
CryoSilver 12-22-07, 12:30 AM	Diplomacy is for roleplayers Psh; I fail to see how "I roll my Diplomacy check; did I beat the DC?" is more roleplaying than "I cast Charm person; did he fail his Will save?"
Novacat 12-22-07, 02:31 AM	Diplomacy is for roleplayers Everything is for roleplayers, depending on what role you're playing. However, as a general rule, Diplomacy is for diplomats. Last I checked, if you make your living killing things and taking their stuff, a diplomat you ain't. Charm Person is actually a practical way to achieve the effects of a Diplomacy check in only a single Standard Action.
1 ton ghost 12-22-07, 02:36 PM	the Diplomacy system is retarded and terribly unrealistic. for the current system, i think there is a Skill Trick in Comp.Scoundrel that lets you make another Diplo attempt post-haste, but nothing is coming to mind that negates the -10 penalty for rushing so to speak. ideally, you gotta' hip shoot it. if ever there was a time to RP, that is it. you should consider race relations of acting delegates, bribes, their opening lines of praise/condescension, etc. so many variables to consider that trying to express it mechanically is damn near impossible. yes, let them make a roll and all (don't pi$$ those ranks away), but allow for, and bear w/ me now, some creative expression and initiative on the PCs end. simply letting them solve all their problems w/ a d20 gets old quick...
Novacat 12-22-07, 03:29 PM	the Diplomacy system is retarded and terribly unrealistic. In that light, I have to recommend the Giant in the Playground's article (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html) on Diplomacy. Very seriously considering implementing a lot of his stuff for my next game. I can only say I hope someone at Wizards noticed him and got him on the 4th Edition team.
Voran 12-23-07, 07:24 PM	Diplomacy is for roleplayers The sad thing is, the ones that want to use diplomacy often end up being the ones who want to use it to totally depower and disarm their foe, THEN murder them, or rob them blind. At least its not yet as awful as the SAGA SW stuff, with negotiation and Jedi using their skills to put an opponent waaay down on the condition track just by talking to them, THEN killing them with their lightsaber.
Kyuketsukiouji 12-24-07, 12:00 PM	There is a feat or skill trick out there that lowers that -10 to -5. As for saying that "Diplomacy is broken" or whatnot, it's not really. The problem with diplomacy is twofold: 1- DMs let themselves be talked into thinking "Friendly" and "Helpful" means "will betray their deep-seated principles and/or let themselves stupidly get slaughtered", but because it's not written that "no matter how friendly you get with a paladin, he won't kill babies if you ask him nicely". and 2- WotC didn't bother listing out all sorts of circumstance modifiers any sensible DM naturally applies. You know like Target is a Greater Deity, and You Just Killed Target's Best Buddies... Most "fixes" for Diplomacy are basically just that, adding in stuff that are basically Circumstance modifiers to the check. Once DMs start doing that, and realise that Diplomacy isn't mind control (at least at pre-epic levels), then it's smooth sailing from there on. It should also be pointed out that Diplomacy is only to be used when the player using it is being honest. If you're lying ("Yeah, we're all buddies here, so why don't you put down your unholy blade and slug back an ale? We won't hurt you, honest!"), you're using Bluff, not Diplomacy, and that's a Sense Motive roll right there. In fact, if you're trying to use Diplomacy -while- Bluffing, that's 10 rounds of Sense Motive the other guy has to call you out on.
CryoSilver 12-24-07, 12:23 PM	I agree with Kyuk(rest of name here). In my mind, Friendly = your next door neighbor/coworker/acquaintance. He'll help you move, or get your mail for you. He may even lend you a couple hundred dollars if you promise to pay him back soon. Helpful = Your best friend/family member. They'll help you do something illegal if the risk is low, lend you money without requiring immediate repayment and generally go out of their way to help you, though they won't usually expose themselves to great risk to do so.
MysterYvil 12-26-07, 03:33 PM	Charm Person: Because Diplomacy is for chumps.Charm Person requires casting a spell at another creature, which in and of itself can be seen as an aggressive move. Diplomacy is FAR less confrontational.