Feat combo's to prevent full-round attacks? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feat combo's to prevent full-round attacks? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
manick
08-24-07, 12:35 AM I'm attempting to make a Warblade that has the option to avoid taking on full attacks from his opponents, or just avoid getting hit in general. So far, the only combo I've come up with is Karmic Strike + Evasive Reflexes, but the requirements are a little heavy. I read about another one from this post: http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=9932824#post9932824
Spiked Chain + Thicket of Blades + Stand Still + Exotic Reach (from Exotic Weapon Master)

Anyone else have some suggestions?
Gabryel
08-24-07, 02:00 AM curious what does evasive reflexes do ?
manick
08-24-07, 03:54 AM It lets you take a 5 foot step in any direction instead of taking an attack of opportunity.
Egres
08-24-07, 06:08 AM curious what does evasive reflexes do ?
EVASIVE REFLEXES (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060706a)

When an opponent gives you an opening in combat, you know exactly what to do: slip away.

Prerequisite: Dex 13

Benefit: When an opponent gives you a chance to make an attack of opportunity, you can instead immediately take a 5-foot step.

Special: Evasive Reflexes can be used in place of Combat Reflexes to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability. You can take both this feat and Combat Reflexes.
tarkin
08-24-07, 10:37 AM Karmic Strike and Evasive reflexes would technically require a house rule to do what you want.

AoO's happen before the trigering event.

Karmic Strike gives you an AoO but only if they hit you for damage.

Therefore you can not use the AoO from Karmic strike to prevent them from damaging you, as this negates the AoO which means you lose your action that you got as a result of the AoO.

There are three ways to handle this:

a. Use RAW, in which case your game continues in an endless time repetition until you wise up and say "OK I don't use my ability to negate the hit"

b. Use RAI to simply say that any attempt to create the time look is illegal and never allowed.

c. House Rule to move the AoO to occure after the attack instead of before it.

----------------

The other alternative is to use Robilar's Gambit instead of Karmic Strike.

It clearly tells you to that the AoO occures after the attack instead of before the attack (i.e. it is like the House rule of Karmic Strike)

Robilar's gambit has fewer pre-reqs, being basically a single feat that is WELL worth it by itself, but it also has a high BAB pre-req.
manick
08-24-07, 02:45 PM [Edit]
Nevermind, I fully understand.

Robilar's Gambit does sound alot better.

Any other suggestions?
Shaggy_Shaggs
08-24-07, 02:53 PM Didn't Karmic Strike get errata to state that it and the triggering event occur simultaneously? He'd basically take the hit and be knocked out of range for the rest of the full attack.

Robilar's Gambit would be a more efficient way to do this though.
Grumman
08-24-07, 03:00 PM You've probably already thought of this, but there's always spring attack.
InkBlot
08-24-07, 03:08 PM He's a Warblade, and Spring Attack doesn't work for martial maneuvers.

What about good ol' Improved Trip? Or Improved Disarm? And then there's also a variety of maneuvers which can move you out of dodge (e.g., Sudden Leap and Quicksilver Motion) and ones that prevent your enemies from making full attacks (some Stone Dragon strikes I don't recall the names of).
Shaggy_Shaggs
08-24-07, 11:19 PM Erm, tripping someone doesn't make them unable to hit you, or require them to stand up to hit you. They just take a -4 penalty to AC vs melee attacks, and a -4 penalty to attack rolls with melee weapons. They could lay there and beat the crap out of you and get up after you're dead, if their attack bonus is high enough.
Dheran
08-25-07, 10:35 AM Didn't Karmic Strike get errata to state that it and the triggering event occur simultaneously? No errata are required. Feats are, by their nature, ways to buy exceptions to the normal rules. Here's the summary line for the feat:Karmic Strike

You have learned to strike when your opponent is most vulnerable - the same instant your opponent strikes you. Simultaneity, rather than the normal AoO first ordering, is specified in the feat. Theoretically you could have two combatants kill each other with Karmic Strike. With the OP's intended scheme they'd step away as they were being hit.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
manick 08-24-07, 12:35 AM	I'm attempting to make a Warblade that has the option to avoid taking on full attacks from his opponents, or just avoid getting hit in general. So far, the only combo I've come up with is Karmic Strike + Evasive Reflexes, but the requirements are a little heavy. I read about another one from this post: http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=9932824#post9932824 Spiked Chain + Thicket of Blades + Stand Still + Exotic Reach (from Exotic Weapon Master) Anyone else have some suggestions?
Gabryel 08-24-07, 02:00 AM	curious what does evasive reflexes do ?
manick 08-24-07, 03:54 AM	It lets you take a 5 foot step in any direction instead of taking an attack of opportunity.
Egres 08-24-07, 06:08 AM	curious what does evasive reflexes do ? EVASIVE REFLEXES (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060706a) When an opponent gives you an opening in combat, you know exactly what to do: slip away. Prerequisite: Dex 13 Benefit: When an opponent gives you a chance to make an attack of opportunity, you can instead immediately take a 5-foot step. Special: Evasive Reflexes can be used in place of Combat Reflexes to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability. You can take both this feat and Combat Reflexes.
tarkin 08-24-07, 10:37 AM	Karmic Strike and Evasive reflexes would technically require a house rule to do what you want. AoO's happen before the trigering event. Karmic Strike gives you an AoO but only if they hit you for damage. Therefore you can not use the AoO from Karmic strike to prevent them from damaging you, as this negates the AoO which means you lose your action that you got as a result of the AoO. There are three ways to handle this: a. Use RAW, in which case your game continues in an endless time repetition until you wise up and say "OK I don't use my ability to negate the hit" b. Use RAI to simply say that any attempt to create the time look is illegal and never allowed. c. House Rule to move the AoO to occure after the attack instead of before it. ---------------- The other alternative is to use Robilar's Gambit instead of Karmic Strike. It clearly tells you to that the AoO occures after the attack instead of before the attack (i.e. it is like the House rule of Karmic Strike) Robilar's gambit has fewer pre-reqs, being basically a single feat that is WELL worth it by itself, but it also has a high BAB pre-req.
manick 08-24-07, 02:45 PM	[Edit] Nevermind, I fully understand. Robilar's Gambit does sound alot better. Any other suggestions?
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-24-07, 02:53 PM	Didn't Karmic Strike get errata to state that it and the triggering event occur simultaneously? He'd basically take the hit and be knocked out of range for the rest of the full attack. Robilar's Gambit would be a more efficient way to do this though.
Grumman 08-24-07, 03:00 PM	You've probably already thought of this, but there's always spring attack.
InkBlot 08-24-07, 03:08 PM	He's a Warblade, and Spring Attack doesn't work for martial maneuvers. What about good ol' Improved Trip? Or Improved Disarm? And then there's also a variety of maneuvers which can move you out of dodge (e.g., Sudden Leap and Quicksilver Motion) and ones that prevent your enemies from making full attacks (some Stone Dragon strikes I don't recall the names of).
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-24-07, 11:19 PM	Erm, tripping someone doesn't make them unable to hit you, or require them to stand up to hit you. They just take a -4 penalty to AC vs melee attacks, and a -4 penalty to attack rolls with melee weapons. They could lay there and beat the crap out of you and get up after you're dead, if their attack bonus is high enough.
Dheran 08-25-07, 10:35 AM	Didn't Karmic Strike get errata to state that it and the triggering event occur simultaneously? No errata are required. Feats are, by their nature, ways to buy exceptions to the normal rules. Here's the summary line for the feat:Karmic Strike You have learned to strike when your opponent is most vulnerable - the same instant your opponent strikes you. Simultaneity, rather than the normal AoO first ordering, is specified in the feat. Theoretically you could have two combatants kill each other with Karmic Strike. With the OP's intended scheme they'd step away as they were being hit.