Feat not meeting requirement [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feat not meeting requirement [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BenTheCarotte
11-22-07, 02:48 AM I am planning to make a mixed barb/wizard and I want him to mainly use 2 weapons.

To have Greater 2-Weapon fighting, one of the requirement is 19 Dex. Since a barb needs a lot of Con, my wiz needs Int and Str is always good to have, I don't plan on having a high dexterity score(I aim for 15-16). Would it be possible to learn the feat without having 19 Dex, but only be able to have the 2 extra attack(the one from improved 2-wpn and the one from greater 2-wpn) when my Dex becomes equal to 19(or higher), i.e: when I cast cat's grace on myself.
kuonji
11-22-07, 03:12 AM If you aren't planning on having a high dex, you should probably plan on not having 2 wpn fighting.

One might argue that a barbarian needs less Con then other classes thanks to d12HD and the ability to rage, so you might be able to go with a higher Dex.

Depending on how your group plays, you might be able to take a 15 Dex and use a +4 stat enhancing item (total 19Dex) and use that to qualify for the feats. Just make sure your DM is ok with enhancement items counting towards meeting feat requirements.

I would suggest going with a two handed weapon and power attack rather then trying for 2 wpn fighting, less feats and fewer stats to worry about.

And...why wizard/barbarian?
DMaple
11-22-07, 02:44 PM You can't learn a feat without meeting the requirements for it. So you either get Dex 19 naturally, or if the DM allows you can meet the requirements with a stat boosting item. If you loose the item you loose the use of the feat however.

Another reason for not using two weapons if you are going a barbarian/wizard is you need a free hand in order to cast a spell. Sheathing a weapon is a move action that provokes an AoO, which will really limit options in combat when you need to cast a spell. And unless you have quick draw you won't be able to draw that weapon until your next action (another move action). So if you cast a spell that's a round where you won't get full attacks or the benefit of your two-weapon fighting.

However taking your hand off a two handed weapon is a free action, then cast your spell and return your hand as another free action.
BenTheCarotte
11-22-07, 03:35 PM I am intentionally gimping myself for roleplay purpose. And isn't high constitution important since it affects rage's lenght.

Also, are double weapons considered 2-handed weapon for the purpose of sheating/unsheating?
IdleAltruism
11-22-07, 04:01 PM I am intentionally gimping myself for roleplay purpose. And isn't high constitution important since it affects rage's lenght.

Also, are double weapons considered 2-handed weapon for the purpose of sheating/unsheating?

Rage gives a con boost which gives duration to itself. The average fight takes around 5 rounds, babrarian rage last 3+con mod(which will be +2 with only 1 level in barbarian). If you only have 10 con rage will last 5 rounds.

Con is important especially for barbarians(lack of AC and temp hps). They don't need an uber con, but do not neglect it.

I believe double weapons count as two handed weapons, so you can use one hand to hold it and cast a spell with the other.
Merestil Haye
11-22-07, 04:23 PM By the rules, you can not take a feat unless you can meet all its prerequisites.

Since one of the prerequisites of Greater TWF is BAB +11, you are not going to be taking it early. By the time you get to 12th level (or, given your multiclassing plan, 15th) you can have boosted your Dex by buying stuff and using level increases.

Frankly you are much better off boosting Dex high through items than relying on Cat's Grace. The spell lasts for only a few minutes, so you're going to have to cast it when combat's about to start, giving the enemy more prep time - or time to do things to you.
DiceGolem
11-26-07, 12:08 PM I am intentionally gimping myself for roleplay purpose. And isn't high constitution important since it affects rage's lenght.

Also, are double weapons considered 2-handed weapon for the purpose of sheating/unsheating?

If you're dead-set on the two-weapon fighting, though, you can eventually take Somatic Weaponry (from C.Arcane, I think) that allows you to do somatic components with something in hand.
Krusk
11-26-07, 12:43 PM Maybe you could consider ranger over barbarian? they are very similar, and if you took the two weapon tree you wouldnt need an amazing dex. You will loose out on rage though.

You can also just increase dex over leveling, or buy a stat increase item.

Technically you can use cats grace to do it, but thats a little bit of a pain. You can take the feat so long as you meet the prereqs and then as soon as you dont meet prereqs you loose the feat. If it goes back up you get to use it again. But waiting for one spell to be on is sort of a pain if your entire build requires it.

If you look at stat boosting items, like gloves of dex, they require cats grace to craft them. Meaning they are essentially endless cats grace items. Which is a sign that the spell alone will work for you. It is also covered in the FAQ somewhere i believe.
tyrecian
11-26-07, 04:16 PM I agree with Krusk, ranger would be better suited, and good for an elf. However the wizard/barbarian idea is funny, kind of a Dr. Jeckle Mr. Hyde approach, since you cannot cast while you are raging.

Have you thought about Barb/Sorc though? Move into dragon disciple, perhaps? The barb/sorc is nice, and doesnt have the oddity of the flavor of a manbeast sitting at a book each morning painstakingly turning the tiny, frail, thin pages of his ancient tome with his giant sausaged fingers.

Barbarians can't even read starting out. :) and sorcerers don't need to.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BenTheCarotte 11-22-07, 02:48 AM	I am planning to make a mixed barb/wizard and I want him to mainly use 2 weapons. To have Greater 2-Weapon fighting, one of the requirement is 19 Dex. Since a barb needs a lot of Con, my wiz needs Int and Str is always good to have, I don't plan on having a high dexterity score(I aim for 15-16). Would it be possible to learn the feat without having 19 Dex, but only be able to have the 2 extra attack(the one from improved 2-wpn and the one from greater 2-wpn) when my Dex becomes equal to 19(or higher), i.e: when I cast cat's grace on myself.
kuonji 11-22-07, 03:12 AM	If you aren't planning on having a high dex, you should probably plan on not having 2 wpn fighting. One might argue that a barbarian needs less Con then other classes thanks to d12HD and the ability to rage, so you might be able to go with a higher Dex. Depending on how your group plays, you might be able to take a 15 Dex and use a +4 stat enhancing item (total 19Dex) and use that to qualify for the feats. Just make sure your DM is ok with enhancement items counting towards meeting feat requirements. I would suggest going with a two handed weapon and power attack rather then trying for 2 wpn fighting, less feats and fewer stats to worry about. And...why wizard/barbarian?
DMaple 11-22-07, 02:44 PM	You can't learn a feat without meeting the requirements for it. So you either get Dex 19 naturally, or if the DM allows you can meet the requirements with a stat boosting item. If you loose the item you loose the use of the feat however. Another reason for not using two weapons if you are going a barbarian/wizard is you need a free hand in order to cast a spell. Sheathing a weapon is a move action that provokes an AoO, which will really limit options in combat when you need to cast a spell. And unless you have quick draw you won't be able to draw that weapon until your next action (another move action). So if you cast a spell that's a round where you won't get full attacks or the benefit of your two-weapon fighting. However taking your hand off a two handed weapon is a free action, then cast your spell and return your hand as another free action.
BenTheCarotte 11-22-07, 03:35 PM	I am intentionally gimping myself for roleplay purpose. And isn't high constitution important since it affects rage's lenght. Also, are double weapons considered 2-handed weapon for the purpose of sheating/unsheating?
IdleAltruism 11-22-07, 04:01 PM	I am intentionally gimping myself for roleplay purpose. And isn't high constitution important since it affects rage's lenght. Also, are double weapons considered 2-handed weapon for the purpose of sheating/unsheating? Rage gives a con boost which gives duration to itself. The average fight takes around 5 rounds, babrarian rage last 3+con mod(which will be +2 with only 1 level in barbarian). If you only have 10 con rage will last 5 rounds. Con is important especially for barbarians(lack of AC and temp hps). They don't need an uber con, but do not neglect it. I believe double weapons count as two handed weapons, so you can use one hand to hold it and cast a spell with the other.
Merestil Haye 11-22-07, 04:23 PM	By the rules, you can not take a feat unless you can meet all its prerequisites. Since one of the prerequisites of Greater TWF is BAB +11, you are not going to be taking it early. By the time you get to 12th level (or, given your multiclassing plan, 15th) you can have boosted your Dex by buying stuff and using level increases. Frankly you are much better off boosting Dex high through items than relying on Cat's Grace. The spell lasts for only a few minutes, so you're going to have to cast it when combat's about to start, giving the enemy more prep time - or time to do things to you.
DiceGolem 11-26-07, 12:08 PM	I am intentionally gimping myself for roleplay purpose. And isn't high constitution important since it affects rage's lenght. Also, are double weapons considered 2-handed weapon for the purpose of sheating/unsheating? If you're dead-set on the two-weapon fighting, though, you can eventually take Somatic Weaponry (from C.Arcane, I think) that allows you to do somatic components with something in hand.
Krusk 11-26-07, 12:43 PM	Maybe you could consider ranger over barbarian? they are very similar, and if you took the two weapon tree you wouldnt need an amazing dex. You will loose out on rage though. You can also just increase dex over leveling, or buy a stat increase item. Technically you can use cats grace to do it, but thats a little bit of a pain. You can take the feat so long as you meet the prereqs and then as soon as you dont meet prereqs you loose the feat. If it goes back up you get to use it again. But waiting for one spell to be on is sort of a pain if your entire build requires it. If you look at stat boosting items, like gloves of dex, they require cats grace to craft them. Meaning they are essentially endless cats grace items. Which is a sign that the spell alone will work for you. It is also covered in the FAQ somewhere i believe.
tyrecian 11-26-07, 04:16 PM	I agree with Krusk, ranger would be better suited, and good for an elf. However the wizard/barbarian idea is funny, kind of a Dr. Jeckle Mr. Hyde approach, since you cannot cast while you are raging. Have you thought about Barb/Sorc though? Move into dragon disciple, perhaps? The barb/sorc is nice, and doesnt have the oddity of the flavor of a manbeast sitting at a book each morning painstakingly turning the tiny, frail, thin pages of his ancient tome with his giant sausaged fingers. Barbarians can't even read starting out. :) and sorcerers don't need to.