Feat Prerequisites Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feat Prerequisites Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DM-Scott
07-04-07, 11:15 PM Ok, this is probably gonna sound odd but I'm wondering if a character can take a feat they don't meet the prerequisites for. The reason is, I know if you later fail to meet the prerequisites (say a fighter with 13 str takes power attack, the suffers age penalties) you loose the benefits of the feat but not the feat itself.

So the simplest version would be, could a fighter say - take power attack with a str 11, then later build his str up to 13 and gain the benefit of the feat?

I figured I'd ask here to see if someone already knows, before I begin rummaging through every one of my books for the answer.

Thanks in advance.
Salla
07-04-07, 11:21 PM The character has to qualify at the time he takes the feat. So, an 11 STR character can't take Power Attack at 1st level waiting for those Gauntlets of Ogre Power.
SilentOne
07-04-07, 11:21 PM Prerequisites

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.

A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.
As shown, you need to meet any an all prerequisites in order to take a feat, and lose the ability to use it if you lose a prerequisite. So no, your fighter couldn't select Power Attack.
DM-Scott
07-04-07, 11:37 PM Which leads to another question. At what point is it assumed that the player qualifies for this feat? For example, I've been told that a player can use an items to "qualify" for a feat, and have seen rules cited on the issue, as well as things such as taking feats for use only when polymorphed and wild shaped (such as improved natural attack [bite] for example), or something similar.

So how does one decide where the lines are drawn one what a character's abilities are? Also, do you have to spend your feats? I know some people willingly forgo gaining a level until they spend craft points for example.

Can a character choose not to gain a feat he or she is entitled to until they could meet the prerequisites for it? For example - if a feat has BAB +5 as a requirement, a fighter could select it by lvl 5 but doesn't actually get a feat slot for it until lvl 6.

Could he choose to forgo taking a feat at 3rd level to get it when he could qualify for it?

Again, thanks in advance. You guys here always seem to be on top of the issues. :clap:
Bob Loblaw
07-05-07, 10:55 AM Which leads to another question. At what point is it assumed that the player qualifies for this feat? For example, I've been told that a player can use an items to "qualify" for a feat, and have seen rules cited on the issue, as well as things such as taking feats for use only when polymorphed and wild shaped (such as improved natural attack [bite] for example), or something similar.
I allow the character to qualify for a feat at any point during the level up process. Usually, if they are following the list of what to do, they will qualify without having to do anything out of order. I don't allow the players to take feats that can only be used when polymorphed or wildshaped unless the feat specifically states that's what it's for. I find that the players who do this tend to metagame more than others. While not everyone does this, I haven't seen one yet.

So how does one decide where the lines are drawn one what a character's abilities are? Also, do you have to spend your feats? I know some people willingly forgo gaining a level until they spend craft points for example.
You cannot save points or forgo gaining a level. Things happen when you get enough points. This is another metagaming tool that I disallow. The characters have no concept of Experience Points, Feats, Skill Points, etc. The reason I don't let them save feats for later is simply because it would change the dynamic of the game. If a player wants a feat sooner than he would normally get it, then he needs to find a reasonable way of getting that feat. For example, if a rogue wants Weapon Finesse before 3rd level, he's going to have to multiclass into fighter. This makes sense anyway because he is trying to be more martial than other rogues.

Can a character choose not to gain a feat he or she is entitled to until they could meet the prerequisites for it? For example - if a feat has BAB +5 as a requirement, a fighter could select it by lvl 5 but doesn't actually get a feat slot for it until lvl 6.
In this case, the fighter cannot choose the feat until 6th level. He gets no feats at 5th. However, if you could choose the feat at 5th level (e.g., rogue 1/fighter 5) then you cannot save the feat for later.
DM-Scott
07-05-07, 10:59 AM Gotcha. Well thanks for the info. You guys really saved me a lot of trouble of looking through all of my books before my party's next game, so onto building NPCs and stuff. :P

Thanks guys. :D

PS - It's stuff like this that makes me feel like a newb, despite the fact I've been playin' 3e since it came out. :P
Steevo
07-05-07, 11:04 AM Which leads to another question. At what point is it assumed that the player qualifies for this feat? For example, I've been told that a player can use an items to "qualify" for a feat, and have seen rules cited on the issue, as well as things such as taking feats for use only when polymorphed and wild shaped (such as improved natural attack [bite] for example), or something similar.

IMHO, you qualify for the feat if you have the prerequisites. So your fighter with Str 11 could just have someone cast Bull's Str on him as he levels and pick up the feat. It would stop working as soon as the Bull's Str wore off, but he'd still have it. (Note that Power Attack being a prerequisite for Cleave, imho, means that Power Attack must be *active* to pick up or use Cleave at a later date.)

Can a character choose not to gain a feat he or she is entitled to until they could meet the prerequisites for it? For example - if a feat has BAB +5 as a requirement, a fighter could select it by lvl 5 but doesn't actually get a feat slot for it until lvl 6.

Could he choose to forgo taking a feat at 3rd level to get it when he could qualify for it?

No, you cannot choose to "save" your feat for later. All the benefits of gaining a level must be chosen at the time you gain your level, or they are lost. That said, you CAN choose not to level up when you first hit the XP amount required and wait until you're ready to pick up the feat before you gain your level. Assuming you don't lose any XP in between, you'll be good to go.
tui
07-05-07, 03:41 PM Could he choose to forgo taking a feat at 3rd level to get it when he could qualify for it?
No. If you'd like a quote, here you go:
Can a character choose to delay a choice (such as spending skill points or selecting a feat) until a later level?

No. All choices regarding character advancement must be made as soon as they become available. You can’t save skill points from one level to another, nor may you delay selecting a feat from, say, 3rd level to 4th level.

That said, the retraining rules in Player’s Handbook II allow you to adjust such decisions later in your career, which accomplishes a similar result.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DM-Scott 07-04-07, 11:15 PM	Ok, this is probably gonna sound odd but I'm wondering if a character can take a feat they don't meet the prerequisites for. The reason is, I know if you later fail to meet the prerequisites (say a fighter with 13 str takes power attack, the suffers age penalties) you loose the benefits of the feat but not the feat itself. So the simplest version would be, could a fighter say - take power attack with a str 11, then later build his str up to 13 and gain the benefit of the feat? I figured I'd ask here to see if someone already knows, before I begin rummaging through every one of my books for the answer. Thanks in advance.
Salla 07-04-07, 11:21 PM	The character has to qualify at the time he takes the feat. So, an 11 STR character can't take Power Attack at 1st level waiting for those Gauntlets of Ogre Power.
SilentOne 07-04-07, 11:21 PM	Prerequisites Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite. A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite. As shown, you need to meet any an all prerequisites in order to take a feat, and lose the ability to use it if you lose a prerequisite. So no, your fighter couldn't select Power Attack.
DM-Scott 07-04-07, 11:37 PM	Which leads to another question. At what point is it assumed that the player qualifies for this feat? For example, I've been told that a player can use an items to "qualify" for a feat, and have seen rules cited on the issue, as well as things such as taking feats for use only when polymorphed and wild shaped (such as improved natural attack [bite] for example), or something similar. So how does one decide where the lines are drawn one what a character's abilities are? Also, do you have to spend your feats? I know some people willingly forgo gaining a level until they spend craft points for example. Can a character choose not to gain a feat he or she is entitled to until they could meet the prerequisites for it? For example - if a feat has BAB +5 as a requirement, a fighter could select it by lvl 5 but doesn't actually get a feat slot for it until lvl 6. Could he choose to forgo taking a feat at 3rd level to get it when he could qualify for it? Again, thanks in advance. You guys here always seem to be on top of the issues. :clap:
Bob Loblaw 07-05-07, 10:55 AM	Which leads to another question. At what point is it assumed that the player qualifies for this feat? For example, I've been told that a player can use an items to "qualify" for a feat, and have seen rules cited on the issue, as well as things such as taking feats for use only when polymorphed and wild shaped (such as improved natural attack [bite] for example), or something similar. I allow the character to qualify for a feat at any point during the level up process. Usually, if they are following the list of what to do, they will qualify without having to do anything out of order. I don't allow the players to take feats that can only be used when polymorphed or wildshaped unless the feat specifically states that's what it's for. I find that the players who do this tend to metagame more than others. While not everyone does this, I haven't seen one yet. So how does one decide where the lines are drawn one what a character's abilities are? Also, do you have to spend your feats? I know some people willingly forgo gaining a level until they spend craft points for example. You cannot save points or forgo gaining a level. Things happen when you get enough points. This is another metagaming tool that I disallow. The characters have no concept of Experience Points, Feats, Skill Points, etc. The reason I don't let them save feats for later is simply because it would change the dynamic of the game. If a player wants a feat sooner than he would normally get it, then he needs to find a reasonable way of getting that feat. For example, if a rogue wants Weapon Finesse before 3rd level, he's going to have to multiclass into fighter. This makes sense anyway because he is trying to be more martial than other rogues. Can a character choose not to gain a feat he or she is entitled to until they could meet the prerequisites for it? For example - if a feat has BAB +5 as a requirement, a fighter could select it by lvl 5 but doesn't actually get a feat slot for it until lvl 6. In this case, the fighter cannot choose the feat until 6th level. He gets no feats at 5th. However, if you could choose the feat at 5th level (e.g., rogue 1/fighter 5) then you cannot save the feat for later.
DM-Scott 07-05-07, 10:59 AM	Gotcha. Well thanks for the info. You guys really saved me a lot of trouble of looking through all of my books before my party's next game, so onto building NPCs and stuff. :P Thanks guys. :D PS - It's stuff like this that makes me feel like a newb, despite the fact I've been playin' 3e since it came out. :P
Steevo 07-05-07, 11:04 AM	Which leads to another question. At what point is it assumed that the player qualifies for this feat? For example, I've been told that a player can use an items to "qualify" for a feat, and have seen rules cited on the issue, as well as things such as taking feats for use only when polymorphed and wild shaped (such as improved natural attack [bite] for example), or something similar. IMHO, you qualify for the feat if you have the prerequisites. So your fighter with Str 11 could just have someone cast Bull's Str on him as he levels and pick up the feat. It would stop working as soon as the Bull's Str wore off, but he'd still have it. (Note that Power Attack being a prerequisite for Cleave, imho, means that Power Attack must be active to pick up or use Cleave at a later date.) Can a character choose not to gain a feat he or she is entitled to until they could meet the prerequisites for it? For example - if a feat has BAB +5 as a requirement, a fighter could select it by lvl 5 but doesn't actually get a feat slot for it until lvl 6. Could he choose to forgo taking a feat at 3rd level to get it when he could qualify for it? No, you cannot choose to "save" your feat for later. All the benefits of gaining a level must be chosen at the time you gain your level, or they are lost. That said, you CAN choose not to level up when you first hit the XP amount required and wait until you're ready to pick up the feat before you gain your level. Assuming you don't lose any XP in between, you'll be good to go.
tui 07-05-07, 03:41 PM	Could he choose to forgo taking a feat at 3rd level to get it when he could qualify for it? No. If you'd like a quote, here you go: Can a character choose to delay a choice (such as spending skill points or selecting a feat) until a later level? No. All choices regarding character advancement must be made as soon as they become available. You can’t save skill points from one level to another, nor may you delay selecting a feat from, say, 3rd level to 4th level. That said, the retraining rules in Player’s Handbook II allow you to adjust such decisions later in your career, which accomplishes a similar result.