Post/Author/DateTime	Post
G_Mancer 07-15-07, 02:27 AM	if my fighter 4 gains 4 monk lvls and wants to re-train all his feats from fighter1-fighter4, can i learn feats that would only have been avaiulable had he been monk4 and gained 4 fighter lvls. (pre-reqs and stuff)
Kouk 07-15-07, 08:11 AM	The only real answer is: ask your DM.
risner 07-15-07, 09:29 PM	You can retrain all your feats (provided the DM allows the PHB II method or some others like Wish) and you need to meet the pre-reqs at the time of the retrain. For example, a level 20 Fighter retraining his Fighter 1st level feat could not select a feat that has a BAB +2 or higher (since as a 1st level character he does not meet that pre-req.)
G_Mancer 07-15-07, 10:35 PM	right but it gets more complicated with my multiclassing. if i retrain my F1 feat, could i take weapon focus unarmed strike? i'd meet the pre-reqs... and a second reading of retraining section, i never saw it say"as if you were lvl x" or so.
Sildatorak 07-15-07, 10:40 PM	WF: Unarmed strike is definitely legal since you met all of the prereqs at level 1.
tarkin 07-16-07, 10:41 AM	right but it gets more complicated with my multiclassing. if i retrain my F1 feat, could i take weapon focus unarmed strike? i'd meet the pre-reqs... and a second reading of retraining section, i never saw it say"as if you were lvl x" or so. Then you misread it. It DOES say that. If the new feat has prerequistes, not only must your character meet them in his current state, but you must also be able to show that he met them at the time you chose the previous feat
risner 07-16-07, 12:17 PM	a second reading of retraining section, i never saw it say"as if you were lvl x" or so. Read it a third time, you are wrong.
TorgSmackie 07-16-07, 12:50 PM	But yeah, you can take Weapon Focus (unarmed) at fighter 1 because Improved Unarmed Strike isn't a prerequisite for it. You couldn't take Improved Grapple or Deflect Arrows, though.
G_Mancer 07-25-07, 11:12 PM	i see now, sorry guys.
risner 07-26-07, 01:01 AM	cool
Rolof 07-26-07, 02:47 AM	Just for the record, the retraining rules include the words "may retrain feats they have selected" or words to that effect. Much to my dissappointment, my DM ruled that meant I couldn't retrain feats that my character had that were utterly useless to me that came as part of "the package deal". Like say, the tower shield proficiency feat you gain automatically for being a fighter. In his opinion (and I reluctantly agreed with the logic, though I didn't like it), is that you could only retrain feats you actually CHOSE, by whatever method.
Enaloindir 07-26-07, 03:06 AM	I would agree with your DM. Otherwise, this would mean an extra feat for most fighters! :) Enaloindir
Fireclave 07-26-07, 03:33 AM	Just for the record, the retraining rules include the words "may retrain feats they have selected" or words to that effect. Much to my dissappointment, my DM ruled that meant I couldn't retrain feats that my character had that were utterly useless to me that came as part of "the package deal". Like say, the tower shield proficiency feat you gain automatically for being a fighter. In his opinion (and I reluctantly agreed with the logic, though I didn't like it), is that you could only retrain feats you actually CHOSE, by whatever method. Thing is, those "package deals" aren't feats at all. A class's weapon and armor proficiencies are class features that can be duplicated by taking feats (or feats that are duplicated by class features...whatever). I would agree with your DM. Otherwise, this would mean an extra feat for most fighters! :) It would mean alot of extra feats for the fighter, and anybody else with proficiency with multiple/all martial weapons. Martial Weapon Proficiency applies to only one weapon. So if all you use is a greatsword and occasionally a longbow, you could gain about 30 extra feats using that interpretation of the rules by exchanging each weapon for a new feat. Good thing that's not how it works.
tarkin 07-26-07, 01:12 PM	I would agree. Ignoring the 'package deal crap', the ability is about changing feats you CHOOSE, not feats that were given to you.
risner 07-27-07, 01:28 AM	Much to my dissappointment, my DM ruled that meant I couldn't retrain feats that my character had that were utterly useless to me that came as part of "the package deal". Like say, the tower shield proficiency feat you gain automatically for being a fighter. Your DM was absolutely positively 100% correct. You were wrong.
G_Mancer 07-30-07, 01:56 AM	jeez Risner. you're so harsh/blunt with the "you were wrong" statements.