Feat selection question...? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feat selection question...? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fenrir_Greyback
12-15-07, 02:40 PM I'm playing a Rogue, about to reach third lvl.

I am trying to decide between a few feats, so if you could, give suggestions, comments, or criticism.

I'm trying to decide between three feats

Exotic weapons proficiency (Repeating crossbow)

Point blank shot

Iron will

I'm planning on getting a repeating crossbow in any case at all. I know there's the -4 on attacks for weapons you aren't proficient with, but my DM has a house rule that you can use your dexterity on attack roles for Crossbows, and that would cancel the penalty out, leaving my BAB for the only bonus. The advantage to taking exotic weapon proficiency would be that I could apply my full +6 possible to my attack.

Point Blank shot is just an overall useful feat. My next feat after that would probably be the one that allows you an extra attack with a ranged weapon of choice. Does this feat work for crossbows?

Improved will is purely for the reason that my will absolutely sucks.
TheSeasonOfFire
12-15-07, 11:29 PM If you are willing to dip two levels into either fighter or ranger, you can get some pretty nifty feats to make you very effective at early levels. I think ranger works best for this, as they share many of the same skills as rogues and get a good amount of skill points, not to mention the Tracking and Favored Enemy you would pick up. I think picking up Rapid Reload and Rapid Shot are a better bet than messing around with a repeating crossbow. Are you human? If so, you could go:

Human Bonus Feat: Point Blank Shot
1. Rogue1: Precise Shot
2. Ranger1: Track, favored enemy
3. Ranger2: Archery Combat Style (Rapid Shot)/Rapid Reload
4. Rogue2: Evasion
5. Rogue3: Iron Will

Or, if you have a very high Con score, you could actually pick up the third level of ranger to get Endurance for free, which is a prerequisite for Steadfast Determination out of the PHB 2. It allows you to use your Con modifier instead of you Wisdom modifier for Will saves. I also recommend Crossbow Sniper out of the PHB 2, it allows you to deal half your Dex modifier to damage rolls with crossbows, and more importantly increases your distance you can sneak attack.
Mad_Jack
12-16-07, 01:18 PM You haven't mentioned which feat(s) you took at first level.

For a Rogue, Point Blank Shot is a complete no-brainer if you plan to fight with a ranged weapon. Especially if you ever plan on making a ranged sneak attack. (Just keep in mind that the opportunities for ranged sneak attacks are rarer than melee sneaks.) If you're planning to be mainly an archer, then Point Blank Shot should probably be followed by Precise Shot, to get rid of the -4 penalty for shooting into a melee. The other feat you were thinking of is Rapid Shot. It will work with a crossbow, but the reload time of a crossbow means you'd also have to take Rapid Reload to actually use it. You *could* use the repeating crossbow, but keep in mind that at two shots per round, and only five shots in your clip, every third or fourth round you'll have to take a full-round action to put in a new clip (which isn't covered under rapid reload).
The benefit of using the repeating crossbow is that you can move and shoot, but if you take Rapid shot, you'll need to take a full attack action to get the extra shot, and won't be able to move. If you're standing off at range, chances are you won't need to be moving anyway, so it's not really worth the -4 non-proficiency penalty, especially considering the additional -4 you get for shooting at targets engaged in melee. You're better off just using a light crossbow, and take the Rapid Reload feat down the road. As far as that DM house rule, crossbows use your Dex bonus to hit the same as any ranged weapon, so I have no idea why he "house-ruled" it.

Iron Will is something you probably won't need because, given the small number of feats the rogue gets, there are so many much more beneficial feats that you'll be able to afford magic items to cover your Will saves long before you get an extra feat slot to grab it.

On a side note, if you're considering multi-classing to get some combat ability...
Don't ever go with fighter levels unless you really need a specific feat, since you lose all your skill points.
-One level of Swashbuckler from the Complete Warrior has 4 skill points, tumble as a class skill and gives you free weapon finesse. Fits in well with almost any rogue character concept. Also gives you access to martial weapons, and the longbow is better than a light crossbow.
-One level of Ranger won't get you any combat feats, but does get good skill points and shares about half the rogue skills. Again, also gives access to martial weapons.
For two levels, if you're pursuing ranged combat then go two levels of ranger for the two free feats (rapid shot and track) and skill points. For melee combat go one level of fighter and one level of swashbuckler for two free feats (fighter feat and weapon finesse) and the extra hit points.
StevenO
12-16-07, 03:23 PM Unless you plan on using a Heavy Repeating Crossbow you'd be much better off getting Rapid Reload. RR with Light Crossbow will give you just as many attacks as a LRXb but without the need to periodically reload. NEWS Flash: Crossbow already use the DEX modifier for attacks because they are RANGED attacks. There is no house-rule involved here because RAW has Xbows using DEX. If you still insist on using a repeating crossbow then DEFINITELY pick up the feat to use it properly; that -4 to hit is too great to ignore.

Point Blank Shot: A great feat for any ranged character. An attack and damage bonus when it counts most is almost like getting two feats for the price of one. It also opens up all the other "ranged" feats and don't forget it also works on thrown weapons.

Iron Will: If you absolutely must make that WILL save get it. Often time the reason you want it is to avoid mind control but usually the cheapest solution to that is getting a caster to use Protection from X as all of them protect you from outside control.
CrimsonDeath
12-16-07, 04:04 PM I'm planning on getting a repeating crossbow in any case at all. I know there's the -4 on attacks for weapons you aren't proficient with, but my DM has a house rule that you can use your dexterity on attack roles for Crossbows, and that would cancel the penalty out, leaving my BAB for the only bonus.
That's not a house rule. Everyone uses their Dexterity modifier for ranged attack rolls (instead of Strength).

The advantage to taking exotic weapon proficiency would be that I could apply my full +6 possible to my attack.
You can do that with a Shortbow as well, and you're already proficient with that. If your Strength is below 10, you'll take a penalty on attacks with Bows, so that would be a reason to go with a Crossbow. If you go that route, I'd suggest Rapid Reload, like the people above.

My next feat after that would probably be the one that allows you an extra attack with a ranged weapon of choice. Does this feat work for crossbows?
Rapid Shot will work for repeating crossbows. It will also work for light crossbows and hand crossbows if you have the Rapid Reload feat. It works with bows as well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fenrir_Greyback 12-15-07, 02:40 PM	I'm playing a Rogue, about to reach third lvl. I am trying to decide between a few feats, so if you could, give suggestions, comments, or criticism. I'm trying to decide between three feats Exotic weapons proficiency (Repeating crossbow) Point blank shot Iron will I'm planning on getting a repeating crossbow in any case at all. I know there's the -4 on attacks for weapons you aren't proficient with, but my DM has a house rule that you can use your dexterity on attack roles for Crossbows, and that would cancel the penalty out, leaving my BAB for the only bonus. The advantage to taking exotic weapon proficiency would be that I could apply my full +6 possible to my attack. Point Blank shot is just an overall useful feat. My next feat after that would probably be the one that allows you an extra attack with a ranged weapon of choice. Does this feat work for crossbows? Improved will is purely for the reason that my will absolutely sucks.
TheSeasonOfFire 12-15-07, 11:29 PM	If you are willing to dip two levels into either fighter or ranger, you can get some pretty nifty feats to make you very effective at early levels. I think ranger works best for this, as they share many of the same skills as rogues and get a good amount of skill points, not to mention the Tracking and Favored Enemy you would pick up. I think picking up Rapid Reload and Rapid Shot are a better bet than messing around with a repeating crossbow. Are you human? If so, you could go: Human Bonus Feat: Point Blank Shot 1. Rogue1: Precise Shot 2. Ranger1: Track, favored enemy 3. Ranger2: Archery Combat Style (Rapid Shot)/Rapid Reload 4. Rogue2: Evasion 5. Rogue3: Iron Will Or, if you have a very high Con score, you could actually pick up the third level of ranger to get Endurance for free, which is a prerequisite for Steadfast Determination out of the PHB 2. It allows you to use your Con modifier instead of you Wisdom modifier for Will saves. I also recommend Crossbow Sniper out of the PHB 2, it allows you to deal half your Dex modifier to damage rolls with crossbows, and more importantly increases your distance you can sneak attack.
Mad_Jack 12-16-07, 01:18 PM	You haven't mentioned which feat(s) you took at first level. For a Rogue, Point Blank Shot is a complete no-brainer if you plan to fight with a ranged weapon. Especially if you ever plan on making a ranged sneak attack. (Just keep in mind that the opportunities for ranged sneak attacks are rarer than melee sneaks.) If you're planning to be mainly an archer, then Point Blank Shot should probably be followed by Precise Shot, to get rid of the -4 penalty for shooting into a melee. The other feat you were thinking of is Rapid Shot. It will work with a crossbow, but the reload time of a crossbow means you'd also have to take Rapid Reload to actually use it. You could use the repeating crossbow, but keep in mind that at two shots per round, and only five shots in your clip, every third or fourth round you'll have to take a full-round action to put in a new clip (which isn't covered under rapid reload). The benefit of using the repeating crossbow is that you can move and shoot, but if you take Rapid shot, you'll need to take a full attack action to get the extra shot, and won't be able to move. If you're standing off at range, chances are you won't need to be moving anyway, so it's not really worth the -4 non-proficiency penalty, especially considering the additional -4 you get for shooting at targets engaged in melee. You're better off just using a light crossbow, and take the Rapid Reload feat down the road. As far as that DM house rule, crossbows use your Dex bonus to hit the same as any ranged weapon, so I have no idea why he "house-ruled" it. Iron Will is something you probably won't need because, given the small number of feats the rogue gets, there are so many much more beneficial feats that you'll be able to afford magic items to cover your Will saves long before you get an extra feat slot to grab it. On a side note, if you're considering multi-classing to get some combat ability... Don't ever go with fighter levels unless you really need a specific feat, since you lose all your skill points. -One level of Swashbuckler from the Complete Warrior has 4 skill points, tumble as a class skill and gives you free weapon finesse. Fits in well with almost any rogue character concept. Also gives you access to martial weapons, and the longbow is better than a light crossbow. -One level of Ranger won't get you any combat feats, but does get good skill points and shares about half the rogue skills. Again, also gives access to martial weapons. For two levels, if you're pursuing ranged combat then go two levels of ranger for the two free feats (rapid shot and track) and skill points. For melee combat go one level of fighter and one level of swashbuckler for two free feats (fighter feat and weapon finesse) and the extra hit points.
StevenO 12-16-07, 03:23 PM	Unless you plan on using a Heavy Repeating Crossbow you'd be much better off getting Rapid Reload. RR with Light Crossbow will give you just as many attacks as a LRXb but without the need to periodically reload. NEWS Flash: Crossbow already use the DEX modifier for attacks because they are RANGED attacks. There is no house-rule involved here because RAW has Xbows using DEX. If you still insist on using a repeating crossbow then DEFINITELY pick up the feat to use it properly; that -4 to hit is too great to ignore. Point Blank Shot: A great feat for any ranged character. An attack and damage bonus when it counts most is almost like getting two feats for the price of one. It also opens up all the other "ranged" feats and don't forget it also works on thrown weapons. Iron Will: If you absolutely must make that WILL save get it. Often time the reason you want it is to avoid mind control but usually the cheapest solution to that is getting a caster to use Protection from X as all of them protect you from outside control.
CrimsonDeath 12-16-07, 04:04 PM	I'm planning on getting a repeating crossbow in any case at all. I know there's the -4 on attacks for weapons you aren't proficient with, but my DM has a house rule that you can use your dexterity on attack roles for Crossbows, and that would cancel the penalty out, leaving my BAB for the only bonus. That's not a house rule. Everyone uses their Dexterity modifier for ranged attack rolls (instead of Strength). The advantage to taking exotic weapon proficiency would be that I could apply my full +6 possible to my attack. You can do that with a Shortbow as well, and you're already proficient with that. If your Strength is below 10, you'll take a penalty on attacks with Bows, so that would be a reason to go with a Crossbow. If you go that route, I'd suggest Rapid Reload, like the people above. My next feat after that would probably be the one that allows you an extra attack with a ranged weapon of choice. Does this feat work for crossbows? Rapid Shot will work for repeating crossbows. It will also work for light crossbows and hand crossbows if you have the Rapid Reload feat. It works with bows as well.