feat that allows 2nd level spells early? [Archive] - Wizards Community

feat that allows 2nd level spells early? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
arjomanes
05-27-07, 05:04 AM I'm pretty usre I read of a feat that allows a character to get second-level spells earlier, but I can't for the life of me find it. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, I'd appreciate it. Maybe I'm just crazy.
Deep Blue 9000
05-27-07, 05:06 AM Precocious Apprentice from Complete Arcane. Its not listed with the other feats so its kinda hard to find.
arjomanes
05-27-07, 05:18 AM Thanks. I'll search more for it. I thought for sure it was in CA, but didn't see it in the feat section. Do you know off-hand what section it would be in? Is it a variant rule or something?? Also, is there any reason to believe it can't be used to qualify for a PrC that requires ability to cast 2nd level spells? (besides DM fiat)

edit: found the feat. Thanks for those indices in your sig.
risner
05-27-07, 08:50 AM Also, is there any reason to believe it can't be used to qualify for a PrC that requires ability to cast 2nd level spells?

Yes, because you can't qualify with it.
vardock
05-27-07, 08:55 AM actually you can qualify with it. It deos give you a second level spell slot. so you do qualify. You should know that this feat can be taken only at 1st CHARACTER level.
risner
05-27-07, 02:07 PM actually you can qualify with it. It deos give you a second level spell slot. so you do qualify. You should know that this feat can be taken only at 1st CHARACTER level.

Actually, you don't. It does not allow you to cast 2nd levels spells and says so in the feat:

"Until your level is high enough to allow you to cast 2nd-level spells you must succeed on a DC 8 caster level check ..."

Since you are not high enough to cast 2nd levels spells despite this feat, you can not take a PrC that requires 2nd level spells.
legowarrior
05-27-07, 03:55 PM Also, it's an optional rule. I would argue, you would have to Rule Zero it, just to get it in the actual game.
It's not really RAW.
arjomanes
05-27-07, 05:41 PM That makes sense. Thanks. Yeah I noticed it was in the back as a kind of sidebar, so I'll see if I can even take the feat. I don't think I'm going to try and bend the rules to get into a PrC early. Besides, that's what I'm using Improved Binding for.
Vaelan
05-27-07, 11:31 PM The designers have explicitly stated that you cannot use it to qualify for Prestige Classes.

Also, when you read the feat you will see that it undergoes a transformation of sorts when you become able to cast second level spells. Most Prestige Classes use the exact same phrase to describe their prerequisite. If you argue that Precocious Apprentice fulfills the prerequisite, you must also acknowledge that possession of the feat itself its transformation immediately, thus depriving you of the ability that you are saying would grant you entry into the class.

It simply doesn't work.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
arjomanes 05-27-07, 05:04 AM	I'm pretty usre I read of a feat that allows a character to get second-level spells earlier, but I can't for the life of me find it. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, I'd appreciate it. Maybe I'm just crazy.
Deep Blue 9000 05-27-07, 05:06 AM	Precocious Apprentice from Complete Arcane. Its not listed with the other feats so its kinda hard to find.
arjomanes 05-27-07, 05:18 AM	Thanks. I'll search more for it. I thought for sure it was in CA, but didn't see it in the feat section. Do you know off-hand what section it would be in? Is it a variant rule or something?? Also, is there any reason to believe it can't be used to qualify for a PrC that requires ability to cast 2nd level spells? (besides DM fiat) edit: found the feat. Thanks for those indices in your sig.
risner 05-27-07, 08:50 AM	Also, is there any reason to believe it can't be used to qualify for a PrC that requires ability to cast 2nd level spells? Yes, because you can't qualify with it.
vardock 05-27-07, 08:55 AM	actually you can qualify with it. It deos give you a second level spell slot. so you do qualify. You should know that this feat can be taken only at 1st CHARACTER level.
risner 05-27-07, 02:07 PM	actually you can qualify with it. It deos give you a second level spell slot. so you do qualify. You should know that this feat can be taken only at 1st CHARACTER level. Actually, you don't. It does not allow you to cast 2nd levels spells and says so in the feat: "Until your level is high enough to allow you to cast 2nd-level spells you must succeed on a DC 8 caster level check ..." Since you are not high enough to cast 2nd levels spells despite this feat, you can not take a PrC that requires 2nd level spells.
legowarrior 05-27-07, 03:55 PM	Also, it's an optional rule. I would argue, you would have to Rule Zero it, just to get it in the actual game. It's not really RAW.
arjomanes 05-27-07, 05:41 PM	That makes sense. Thanks. Yeah I noticed it was in the back as a kind of sidebar, so I'll see if I can even take the feat. I don't think I'm going to try and bend the rules to get into a PrC early. Besides, that's what I'm using Improved Binding for.
Vaelan 05-27-07, 11:31 PM	The designers have explicitly stated that you cannot use it to qualify for Prestige Classes. Also, when you read the feat you will see that it undergoes a transformation of sorts when you become able to cast second level spells. Most Prestige Classes use the exact same phrase to describe their prerequisite. If you argue that Precocious Apprentice fulfills the prerequisite, you must also acknowledge that possession of the feat itself its transformation immediately, thus depriving you of the ability that you are saying would grant you entry into the class. It simply doesn't work.