Feat that increases free step. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feat that increases free step. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LordTarmos
10-04-07, 07:15 PM Is there a feat that increases your free 5 foot step to a step of 10 feet.
crazysamaritan
10-04-07, 08:00 PM No, just a Tumble skill check from Oriental Adventures.
bone_naga
10-04-07, 08:01 PM I've seen one, but I can't remember the source. It was called Double Step, and that's exactly what it did. When you made a 5' step, you could choose to move another 5'. Don't remember what the prereqs were, but you could probably come up with those easily enough, depending on what range of chars you want to have access to this.
Roderick_BR
10-04-07, 09:44 PM http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Double_Step_(DnD_Feat)
There's a link to the netbook there, where you can find the description and requisites.
I think it's OGL, so you can use it freely. I actually used something similar in a class I was making. I must have seen the name somewhere and copied it by accident.
Dheran
10-04-07, 09:57 PM There's no WotC feat that increases a 5' adjustment to 10'.

However, there are a couple of items and a skill that do this job:
Cyran Gliding Boots (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061120a)
Sparring Dummy of the Master (Arms and Equipment Guide)
DC 40 Tumble check (Oriental Adventures)
zenlike
10-04-07, 10:03 PM There is a psionic PrC that allows you to make a 10ft adjustment. The Elocater, I believe. It's a pretty cool class actually.
Dheran
10-04-07, 10:20 PM There is a psionic PrC that allows you to make a 10ft adjustment. The Elocater, I believe. It's a pretty cool class actually. The Elocater's Capricious Step allows a second 5' adjustment in a round when they take no other movement, so that's superior to a single 10' adjustment. Unfortunately you need 7 levels of this prestige class before you get Capricious Step.
1 ton ghost
10-05-07, 12:48 PM interesting question, but wouldn't it totally break tactical combat? you're basically getting your full attack and exploiting move/reach vs. enemy's (typical 5ft'er) that cannot compensate, ie)no Full-Attack for him.
crazysamaritan
10-05-07, 01:16 PM interesting question, but wouldn't it totally break tactical combat? you're basically getting your full attack and exploiting move/reach vs. enemy's (typical 5ft'er) that cannot compensate, ie)no Full-Attack for him.
That would be the point....
(or to trigger scout's damage)
1 ton ghost
10-05-07, 03:25 PM That would be the point....
(or to trigger scout's damage)

right, the term game balance comes to mind...
Dheran
10-05-07, 03:27 PM interesting question, but wouldn't it totally break tactical combat? you're basically getting your full attack and exploiting move/reach vs. enemy's (typical 5ft'er) that cannot compensate, ie)no Full-Attack for him. You're being too short-sighted, 1 ton ghost. Having 2 5' steps doesn't "break" tactical combat; it merely creates one advantageous tactical combination. If you've got 2 5' steps and a reach weapon you can full attack and be 15' away most of the time, making it hard for your foe to make any straight melee full attacks. But by maintaining that distance you've also made it easier for them to make a charge attack -- a different tactical combination. If the enemy has Lion's Pounce, Dire Charge, or Pouncing Charge they'll be able to make a full attack with that charge. Your enemy compensates by doing something else rather than wading in for straight-up melee attacks. The enemy could also use Spring Attack, or withdraw and switch to a missile weapon.

Does having the Spring Attack/Bounding Assault/Rapid Blitz feat chain with Snap Kick "break" tactical combat? Because that combination will let you bounce all around the battlefield, hitting six times and still ending up out of reach. Having an extra 5' step because you've got 7 levels of a psionic prestige class is about as difficult to obtain and noticeably less powerful.
1 ton ghost
10-05-07, 04:08 PM well i do have a small prescription ;) , but as for short-sightedness in game, i disagree.
if anything i'm taking the long view in consideration of many many aspects conservatively speaking. and we don't do hack and slash by any means. if anything my group's combats are terribly complex. we afford as many options as possible and i encourage that initiative to trip when DR is an issue, to bullrush if the stairs are near, get on a table for higher ground, kill the horse to drop the heavy AC knight, etc.

having this extra 5ft seems to break the paradigm that's been a constant. maybe i'm afraid of change, but this is the first i've heard about it and it seems to radical to the spirit and overall design of the game. maybe that's why i'm just hearing it now. IMO, it feels wrong to me, an opinion so don't freak out.

'bout that 15ft gap, that "charge" will draw an AoO.
hard to force your hand into difficult terrain to kill those 5ft steps and even if one could, you're basically killing off most melee attacks in favor of ranged. not everyone has spring attack and likes to play super high lvl characters.
tygreen101
10-05-07, 07:24 PM it's not a feat, but expeditious retreat allows you to double your movement. it could be argued that it makes every 5ft step into a 10 ft step, but the counter argument to that is that ALL your moves have to be in 10ft increments (while under the effects of expeditious retreat) instead of increments of 5ft as is normal. just look up the price of putting expeditious retreat on a pair of boots with permanency. :)
snakeman830
10-05-07, 08:13 PM Tumble DC for a 10ft step is DC40.

Really fun when combined with Caparious Step from a halfling/gnome/dwarf/any other race with 20ft move speed Elocator. move your full speed without provoking AoO's and getting to make a full attack? Yes please.
strife_001
10-05-07, 08:31 PM Tumble DC for a 10ft step is DC40.

Really fun when combined with Caparious Step from a halfling/gnome/dwarf/any other race with 20ft move speed Elocator. move your full speed without provoking AoO's and getting to make a full attack? Yes please.

You can only take the second step in a round that you preform no actions other than the 2 5ft steps
Dheran
10-05-07, 08:40 PM it's not a feat, but expeditious retreat allows you to double your movement. No, it doesn't.Expeditious Retreat

This spell increases your base land speed by 30 feet. (This adjustment is treated as an enhancement bonus.) The spell has no effect on anything but base land speed, and it doesn't double it. A human Barbarian/Cleric with the Celerity domain and Quick trait will have a base land speed of 60', and Expeditious Retreat will increase that by +30', a net gain of only 50%. A dwarf Fighter will have a base speed of 20', and Expeditious Retreat will increase that by +30', a net gain of 150%.

Expeditious Retreat does nothing to 5' adjustments.
Dheran
10-05-07, 08:52 PM You can only take the second step in a round that you preform no actions other than the 2 5ft steps Huh? That's not right:At 7th level, an elocater can take an extra 5-foot step in any round when she doesn’t perform any other movement (except for the first 5-foot step). So snakeman830's idea about an Elocater taking a 10' adjustment (requiring a successful DC 40 Tumble check), full attacking, and using Capricious Step (with another successful DC 40 Tumble check) to move another 10' is perfectly fine. (Nearly impossible to pull off before Epic levels, but that's got nothing to do with the legality.) This 20' total movement has no direct relation to the character's base speed, but it could be the same for some races, and that tickled snakeman830's (scaly) funnybone.
crazysamaritan
10-06-07, 12:01 AM right, the term game balance comes to mind...
Really? The phrase, 'unbalances combat' comes to mine....

I don't think it breaks, but it does change the normal rules.
1 ton ghost
10-06-07, 12:15 PM You can only take the second step in a round that you preform no actions other than the 2 5ft steps

i should've figured there was a catch.
walks like a duck, talks like a duck...
strenoth
10-06-07, 01:13 PM i should've figured there was a catch.
walks like a duck, talks like a duck...

how ever, as pointed out above, that catch isn't actually there.
Azamantes
10-07-07, 09:32 AM Not a feat, but the ToB stance "press the advantage" gives two 5 foot steps. You could gain this with one lvl of crusader or warblade @ lvl 17 (or earlier if you want more than one lvl in martial adept class).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LordTarmos 10-04-07, 07:15 PM	Is there a feat that increases your free 5 foot step to a step of 10 feet.
crazysamaritan 10-04-07, 08:00 PM	No, just a Tumble skill check from Oriental Adventures.
bone_naga 10-04-07, 08:01 PM	I've seen one, but I can't remember the source. It was called Double Step, and that's exactly what it did. When you made a 5' step, you could choose to move another 5'. Don't remember what the prereqs were, but you could probably come up with those easily enough, depending on what range of chars you want to have access to this.
Roderick_BR 10-04-07, 09:44 PM	http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Double_Step_(DnD_Feat) There's a link to the netbook there, where you can find the description and requisites. I think it's OGL, so you can use it freely. I actually used something similar in a class I was making. I must have seen the name somewhere and copied it by accident.
Dheran 10-04-07, 09:57 PM	There's no WotC feat that increases a 5' adjustment to 10'. However, there are a couple of items and a skill that do this job: Cyran Gliding Boots (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061120a) Sparring Dummy of the Master (Arms and Equipment Guide) DC 40 Tumble check (Oriental Adventures)
zenlike 10-04-07, 10:03 PM	There is a psionic PrC that allows you to make a 10ft adjustment. The Elocater, I believe. It's a pretty cool class actually.
Dheran 10-04-07, 10:20 PM	There is a psionic PrC that allows you to make a 10ft adjustment. The Elocater, I believe. It's a pretty cool class actually. The Elocater's Capricious Step allows a second 5' adjustment in a round when they take no other movement, so that's superior to a single 10' adjustment. Unfortunately you need 7 levels of this prestige class before you get Capricious Step.
1 ton ghost 10-05-07, 12:48 PM	interesting question, but wouldn't it totally break tactical combat? you're basically getting your full attack and exploiting move/reach vs. enemy's (typical 5ft'er) that cannot compensate, ie)no Full-Attack for him.
crazysamaritan 10-05-07, 01:16 PM	interesting question, but wouldn't it totally break tactical combat? you're basically getting your full attack and exploiting move/reach vs. enemy's (typical 5ft'er) that cannot compensate, ie)no Full-Attack for him. That would be the point.... (or to trigger scout's damage)
1 ton ghost 10-05-07, 03:25 PM	That would be the point.... (or to trigger scout's damage) right, the term game balance comes to mind...
Dheran 10-05-07, 03:27 PM	interesting question, but wouldn't it totally break tactical combat? you're basically getting your full attack and exploiting move/reach vs. enemy's (typical 5ft'er) that cannot compensate, ie)no Full-Attack for him. You're being too short-sighted, 1 ton ghost. Having 2 5' steps doesn't "break" tactical combat; it merely creates one advantageous tactical combination. If you've got 2 5' steps and a reach weapon you can full attack and be 15' away most of the time, making it hard for your foe to make any straight melee full attacks. But by maintaining that distance you've also made it easier for them to make a charge attack -- a different tactical combination. If the enemy has Lion's Pounce, Dire Charge, or Pouncing Charge they'll be able to make a full attack with that charge. Your enemy compensates by doing something else rather than wading in for straight-up melee attacks. The enemy could also use Spring Attack, or withdraw and switch to a missile weapon. Does having the Spring Attack/Bounding Assault/Rapid Blitz feat chain with Snap Kick "break" tactical combat? Because that combination will let you bounce all around the battlefield, hitting six times and still ending up out of reach. Having an extra 5' step because you've got 7 levels of a psionic prestige class is about as difficult to obtain and noticeably less powerful.
1 ton ghost 10-05-07, 04:08 PM	well i do have a small prescription ;) , but as for short-sightedness in game, i disagree. if anything i'm taking the long view in consideration of many many aspects conservatively speaking. and we don't do hack and slash by any means. if anything my group's combats are terribly complex. we afford as many options as possible and i encourage that initiative to trip when DR is an issue, to bullrush if the stairs are near, get on a table for higher ground, kill the horse to drop the heavy AC knight, etc. having this extra 5ft seems to break the paradigm that's been a constant. maybe i'm afraid of change, but this is the first i've heard about it and it seems to radical to the spirit and overall design of the game. maybe that's why i'm just hearing it now. IMO, it feels wrong to me, an opinion so don't freak out. 'bout that 15ft gap, that "charge" will draw an AoO. hard to force your hand into difficult terrain to kill those 5ft steps and even if one could, you're basically killing off most melee attacks in favor of ranged. not everyone has spring attack and likes to play super high lvl characters.
tygreen101 10-05-07, 07:24 PM	it's not a feat, but expeditious retreat allows you to double your movement. it could be argued that it makes every 5ft step into a 10 ft step, but the counter argument to that is that ALL your moves have to be in 10ft increments (while under the effects of expeditious retreat) instead of increments of 5ft as is normal. just look up the price of putting expeditious retreat on a pair of boots with permanency. :)
snakeman830 10-05-07, 08:13 PM	Tumble DC for a 10ft step is DC40. Really fun when combined with Caparious Step from a halfling/gnome/dwarf/any other race with 20ft move speed Elocator. move your full speed without provoking AoO's and getting to make a full attack? Yes please.
strife_001 10-05-07, 08:31 PM	Tumble DC for a 10ft step is DC40. Really fun when combined with Caparious Step from a halfling/gnome/dwarf/any other race with 20ft move speed Elocator. move your full speed without provoking AoO's and getting to make a full attack? Yes please. You can only take the second step in a round that you preform no actions other than the 2 5ft steps
Dheran 10-05-07, 08:40 PM	it's not a feat, but expeditious retreat allows you to double your movement. No, it doesn't.Expeditious Retreat This spell increases your base land speed by 30 feet. (This adjustment is treated as an enhancement bonus.) The spell has no effect on anything but base land speed, and it doesn't double it. A human Barbarian/Cleric with the Celerity domain and Quick trait will have a base land speed of 60', and Expeditious Retreat will increase that by +30', a net gain of only 50%. A dwarf Fighter will have a base speed of 20', and Expeditious Retreat will increase that by +30', a net gain of 150%. Expeditious Retreat does nothing to 5' adjustments.
Dheran 10-05-07, 08:52 PM	You can only take the second step in a round that you preform no actions other than the 2 5ft steps Huh? That's not right:At 7th level, an elocater can take an extra 5-foot step in any round when she doesn’t perform any other movement (except for the first 5-foot step). So snakeman830's idea about an Elocater taking a 10' adjustment (requiring a successful DC 40 Tumble check), full attacking, and using Capricious Step (with another successful DC 40 Tumble check) to move another 10' is perfectly fine. (Nearly impossible to pull off before Epic levels, but that's got nothing to do with the legality.) This 20' total movement has no direct relation to the character's base speed, but it could be the same for some races, and that tickled snakeman830's (scaly) funnybone.
crazysamaritan 10-06-07, 12:01 AM	right, the term game balance comes to mind... Really? The phrase, 'unbalances combat' comes to mine.... I don't think it breaks, but it does change the normal rules.
1 ton ghost 10-06-07, 12:15 PM	You can only take the second step in a round that you preform no actions other than the 2 5ft steps i should've figured there was a catch. walks like a duck, talks like a duck...
strenoth 10-06-07, 01:13 PM	i should've figured there was a catch. walks like a duck, talks like a duck... how ever, as pointed out above, that catch isn't actually there.
Azamantes 10-07-07, 09:32 AM	Not a feat, but the ToB stance "press the advantage" gives two 5 foot steps. You could gain this with one lvl of crusader or warblade @ lvl 17 (or earlier if you want more than one lvl in martial adept class).