Feat Tree [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Feat Tree [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aaron Highcolor
04-08-07, 04:31 PM Is there a feat tree/umbrella somewhere w/ all feats listed w/ their prereqs?

I don't need a description of the feats (I have the books), but I would find it useful to have the tree/umbrella during character generation and leveling up.

Thanks!
ChaoticAwsome
04-08-07, 05:58 PM no, look in your book!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

;)
Perseus_Stoned
04-08-07, 06:10 PM Is there a feat tree/umbrella somewhere w/ all feats listed w/ their prereqs?

I don't need a description of the feats (I have the books), but I would find it useful to have the tree/umbrella during character generation and leveling up.

Thanks!

Closest you'll get:

http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/feats.htm
Aaron Highcolor
04-08-07, 07:18 PM Closest you'll get:

http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/feats.htm

Perseus_Stoned,

That is ALMOST exactly what I was looking for.

Now if I could find one like that that has all the WotC D&D feats, that'd be even better. It's a start though!
Perseus_Stoned
04-08-07, 07:21 PM Perseus_Stoned,

That is ALMOST exactly what I was looking for.

Now if I could find one like that that has all the WotC D&D feats, that'd be even better. It's a start though!

The problem is that, assuming current laws remain standard and WotC continues in their maintainence of said laws, that will always be the closest you get- notwithstanding illegal methods of self-constructed ones. Sorry I couldn't be more help, but I've always found that document to be quite useful.

Otherwise, when planning characters, I just like to make a side document with feats I want and list the feats like so:

Power Attack
Cleave
Greater Cleave

with tabs after the prereqs. For some reason the boards is messing with the formatting right now and it won't let me show them, but tabs can be your best friend in situations like those.
Nadaka
04-09-07, 09:17 AM Ugh. making your own list isn't illegal. Publishing it isn't even illegal. There is no list to copy, therefor you are collecting facts and assembling them in your own presentation. As long as the wording of the descriptions in your own, there is no reason one could not create and distribute a list of references for all feats.
tui
04-09-07, 01:26 PM Well, there's the Therran Feat Listing (http://www.devinweb.com/featlisting.htm)... it's tweaked a bit for the creator's homebrew campaign world, but is a good place to start looking for feats. It has the Type, Name, Benefit, Prereqs, and Source for almost all feats. The Benefit description is a one-liner designed to be compliant with WoTC's licensing rules, as I understand it. You really do need the books still for it to be useful. It has the prerequisites, which may get you what you want, but it doesn't break down the feat trees visually like the SRD page does...

[I'm under the impression that the Therran listing is perfectly legal; if it isn't, I'd be happy to edit my post should a WizO/WoTC_* request it.]
j3st3r
04-09-07, 02:17 PM http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf
These are quite nicely categorized
Perseus_Stoned
04-09-07, 06:54 PM Ugh. making your own list isn't illegal. Publishing it isn't even illegal. There is no list to copy, therefor you are collecting facts and assembling them in your own presentation. As long as the wording of the descriptions in your own, there is no reason one could not create and distribute a list of references for all feats.

Which isn't what the poster is looking for
Nadaka
04-09-07, 07:06 PM Which isn't what the poster is looking for

really?

Is there a feat tree/umbrella somewhere w/ all feats listed w/ their prereqs?

I don't need a description of the feats (I have the books), but I would find it useful to have the tree/umbrella during character generation and leveling up.

Thanks!

That is exactly what he asked for. A list of feats with their prerequisites. These are not subject to copyright, and it is not illegal to create such a list or even to publish it as you incorrectly claimed. I only added that further qualification because most of the time a short description of what the feat does accompanies such a list entry.
Perseus_Stoned
04-09-07, 07:12 PM Okay, where did you show such a list of the feats and their prerequisites? He was looking for an already published list, not one he has to construct on his own. I also never claimed it would be illegal to publish a list of feats and their prerequisites; the post later clarified he would like an SRD document of all published feats and I said that would be illegal; sometimes the OP's phrasing changes in additional postings.
Nadaka
04-09-07, 10:13 PM Okay, where did you show such a list of the feats and their prerequisites? He was looking for an already published list, not one he has to construct on his own. I also never claimed it would be illegal to publish a list of feats and their prerequisites; the post later clarified he would like an SRD document of all published feats and I said that would be illegal; sometimes the OP's phrasing changes in additional postings.

Every post I have made has been in direct response to yours. Attempting to correct your misinformation. And no, the OP did not do this "clarification" that you imagine. He stated that the feat list that was linked was almost what he wanted, but that he wanted more feats listed from other sources.

And no, that would not be illegal. You nor anyone else can copyright facts, only the method of their presentation within the specific guidelines of copyright law.
Perseus_Stoned
04-09-07, 11:14 PM Closest you'll get:

http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/feats.htm

...

Now if I could find one like that that has all the WotC D&D feats, that'd be even better.

...

His "like that" was clearly in reference to the SRD document, not to a list of feats and prerequisites.

The problem is that, assuming current laws remain standard and WotC continues in their maintainence of said laws, that will always be the closest you get- notwithstanding illegal methods of self-constructed ones. Sorry I couldn't be more help, but I've always found that document to be quite useful.

My statement was then a commentary that reproducing a SRD and selling it as your product would be illegal (among other things).

Ugh. making your own list isn't illegal. Publishing it isn't even illegal. There is no list to copy, therefor you are collecting facts and assembling them in your own presentation. As long as the wording of the descriptions in your own, there is no reason one could not create and distribute a list of references for all feats.

Then comes you taking things out of context.

You are telling me you can make an online document right now, identical to the SRD except that it offers ALL WoTC content, and you can sell this for information. While maybe this is not your intention, this is what you have been doing and why I stand by what I said. Do not twist what the OP said, because I can still read it fine. You can interpret it however you want, but what he says and what you are saying he said are two different things. You are wrong and possibly taking what was said out of context. Regardless you're still wrong.
Nadaka
04-09-07, 11:58 PM The problem is that, assuming current laws remain standard and WotC continues in their maintainence of said laws, that will always be the closest you get- notwithstanding illegal methods of self-constructed ones. Sorry I couldn't be more help, but I've always found that document to be quite useful.

Otherwise, when planning characters, I just like to make a side document with feats I want and list the feats like so:

with tabs after the prereqs. For some reason the boards is messing with the formatting right now and it won't let me show them, but tabs can be your best friend in situations like those.

I am considering you full statements and the OPs statements. In this post you clearly state that making a list like the page linked from the SRD would be illegal. This is unquestionably false and the statement that began my objection. Neither trademark nor copyright law controls the ability to produce anything, it is only concerned with its distribution. Even then, trademark law does not apply because the feat names are not trademarked. Nor does copyright apply because only covers the form of material expression, not the ideas, information or facts being expressed. In this case it is a case of expressing simple facts and is therefore not illegal as you claim.

However, you could also take the SRD verbatim and sell it for a profit as long as you follow the rules of the OGL, essentially all you need to do is update section 15 correctly and distribute the SRD with the modified OGL. In this case you will only be able to include open content or new content created by yourself with the SRD due to the legally binding restrictions of the OGL. You would not be able to distribute a list of all feats and their prerequisites under this arrangement.

oh, and you can fix your problem with the boards by using code tags {CODE}...{/CODE} with square brackets rather than curley ones as that preserves tabs and other whitespace.
Perseus_Stoned
04-10-07, 12:02 AM I am considering you full statements and the OPs statements. In this post you clearly state that making a list like the page linked from the SRD would be illegal.

Please quote me on this; I do not see any such "clear statements".

This is unquestionably false and the statement that began my objection. Neither trademark nor copyright law controls the ability to produce anything, it is only concerned with its distribution. Even then, trademark law does not apply because the feat names are not trademarked. Nor does copyright apply because only covers the form of material expression, not the ideas, information or facts being expressed. In this case it is a case of expressing simple facts and is therefore not illegal as you claim.

While I am not sure on this information, you appear as if you know what you're talking about, so I will make sure to reference you if I am ever in need of a legal opinion on such matters. You have opened my eyes a bit into the legal world of Wizards; however all these points hinge on your earlier statement, one I do not find to be true.

However, you could also take the SRD verbatim and sell it for a profit as long as you follow the rules of the OGL, essentially all you need to do is update section 15 correctly and distribute the SRD with the modified OGL. In this case you will only be able to include open content or new content created by yourself with the SRD due to the legally binding restrictions of the OGL. You would not be able to distribute a list of all feats and their prerequisites under this arrangement.

This appears as legal jargon to me, though while quite interesting to me, isn't anything I'm concerned with in this case. I have no desire to do such a thing, but again I might reference you later in the future if such a case is necessary.

oh, and you can fix your problem with the boards by using code tags {CODE}...{/CODE} with square brackets rather than curley ones as that preserves tabs and other whitespace.

Thank you, this was indeed my problem- its been awhile since I've needed to code.
Aaron Highcolor
04-10-07, 08:03 AM Let me end the arguement and clarify what I[B] meant, since I am the only one who truely knows what I meant.

The SRD source was nice, but it did not have [B]ALL the feats that I wanted (which would be a comprehensive list of all feats listed w/ prereqs). Now, it did NOT have to be the SRD source format, as the other 2 that were listed would work just as well.

To make it short and restate my original intent, I am looking for a list of all WotC feats (sans descriptions) with prereqs to have handy when creating a new character or leveling one up.

Sorry to cause all the chaos and/or confusion.
NobodyRemembersThis
04-10-07, 11:53 AM Wouldn't it be asier to ask yer DM what feats he will allow? After all, if it is from a source he refuses to use, you are SOL with yer feat choice.
Aaron Highcolor
04-10-07, 06:22 PM Well, since they use ALL the books, I guess I could...;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aaron Highcolor 04-08-07, 04:31 PM	Is there a feat tree/umbrella somewhere w/ all feats listed w/ their prereqs? I don't need a description of the feats (I have the books), but I would find it useful to have the tree/umbrella during character generation and leveling up. Thanks!
ChaoticAwsome 04-08-07, 05:58 PM	no, look in your book!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: ;)
Perseus_Stoned 04-08-07, 06:10 PM	Is there a feat tree/umbrella somewhere w/ all feats listed w/ their prereqs? I don't need a description of the feats (I have the books), but I would find it useful to have the tree/umbrella during character generation and leveling up. Thanks! Closest you'll get: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/feats.htm
Aaron Highcolor 04-08-07, 07:18 PM	Closest you'll get: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/feats.htm Perseus_Stoned, That is ALMOST exactly what I was looking for. Now if I could find one like that that has all the WotC D&D feats, that'd be even better. It's a start though!
Perseus_Stoned 04-08-07, 07:21 PM	Perseus_Stoned, That is ALMOST exactly what I was looking for. Now if I could find one like that that has all the WotC D&D feats, that'd be even better. It's a start though! The problem is that, assuming current laws remain standard and WotC continues in their maintainence of said laws, that will always be the closest you get- notwithstanding illegal methods of self-constructed ones. Sorry I couldn't be more help, but I've always found that document to be quite useful. Otherwise, when planning characters, I just like to make a side document with feats I want and list the feats like so: Power Attack Cleave Greater Cleave with tabs after the prereqs. For some reason the boards is messing with the formatting right now and it won't let me show them, but tabs can be your best friend in situations like those.
Nadaka 04-09-07, 09:17 AM	Ugh. making your own list isn't illegal. Publishing it isn't even illegal. There is no list to copy, therefor you are collecting facts and assembling them in your own presentation. As long as the wording of the descriptions in your own, there is no reason one could not create and distribute a list of references for all feats.
tui 04-09-07, 01:26 PM	Well, there's the Therran Feat Listing (http://www.devinweb.com/featlisting.htm)... it's tweaked a bit for the creator's homebrew campaign world, but is a good place to start looking for feats. It has the Type, Name, Benefit, Prereqs, and Source for almost all feats. The Benefit description is a one-liner designed to be compliant with WoTC's licensing rules, as I understand it. You really do need the books still for it to be useful. It has the prerequisites, which may get you what you want, but it doesn't break down the feat trees visually like the SRD page does... [I'm under the impression that the Therran listing is perfectly legal; if it isn't, I'd be happy to edit my post should a WizO/WoTC_* request it.]
j3st3r 04-09-07, 02:17 PM	http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf These are quite nicely categorized
Perseus_Stoned 04-09-07, 06:54 PM	Ugh. making your own list isn't illegal. Publishing it isn't even illegal. There is no list to copy, therefor you are collecting facts and assembling them in your own presentation. As long as the wording of the descriptions in your own, there is no reason one could not create and distribute a list of references for all feats. Which isn't what the poster is looking for
Nadaka 04-09-07, 07:06 PM	Which isn't what the poster is looking for really? Is there a feat tree/umbrella somewhere w/ all feats listed w/ their prereqs? I don't need a description of the feats (I have the books), but I would find it useful to have the tree/umbrella during character generation and leveling up. Thanks! That is exactly what he asked for. A list of feats with their prerequisites. These are not subject to copyright, and it is not illegal to create such a list or even to publish it as you incorrectly claimed. I only added that further qualification because most of the time a short description of what the feat does accompanies such a list entry.
Perseus_Stoned 04-09-07, 07:12 PM	Okay, where did you show such a list of the feats and their prerequisites? He was looking for an already published list, not one he has to construct on his own. I also never claimed it would be illegal to publish a list of feats and their prerequisites; the post later clarified he would like an SRD document of all published feats and I said that would be illegal; sometimes the OP's phrasing changes in additional postings.
Nadaka 04-09-07, 10:13 PM	Okay, where did you show such a list of the feats and their prerequisites? He was looking for an already published list, not one he has to construct on his own. I also never claimed it would be illegal to publish a list of feats and their prerequisites; the post later clarified he would like an SRD document of all published feats and I said that would be illegal; sometimes the OP's phrasing changes in additional postings. Every post I have made has been in direct response to yours. Attempting to correct your misinformation. And no, the OP did not do this "clarification" that you imagine. He stated that the feat list that was linked was almost what he wanted, but that he wanted more feats listed from other sources. And no, that would not be illegal. You nor anyone else can copyright facts, only the method of their presentation within the specific guidelines of copyright law.
Perseus_Stoned 04-09-07, 11:14 PM	Closest you'll get: http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/feats.htm ... Now if I could find one like that that has all the WotC D&D feats, that'd be even better. ... His "like that" was clearly in reference to the SRD document, not to a list of feats and prerequisites. The problem is that, assuming current laws remain standard and WotC continues in their maintainence of said laws, that will always be the closest you get- notwithstanding illegal methods of self-constructed ones. Sorry I couldn't be more help, but I've always found that document to be quite useful. My statement was then a commentary that reproducing a SRD and selling it as your product would be illegal (among other things). Ugh. making your own list isn't illegal. Publishing it isn't even illegal. There is no list to copy, therefor you are collecting facts and assembling them in your own presentation. As long as the wording of the descriptions in your own, there is no reason one could not create and distribute a list of references for all feats. Then comes you taking things out of context. You are telling me you can make an online document right now, identical to the SRD except that it offers ALL WoTC content, and you can sell this for information. While maybe this is not your intention, this is what you have been doing and why I stand by what I said. Do not twist what the OP said, because I can still read it fine. You can interpret it however you want, but what he says and what you are saying he said are two different things. You are wrong and possibly taking what was said out of context. Regardless you're still wrong.
Nadaka 04-09-07, 11:58 PM	The problem is that, assuming current laws remain standard and WotC continues in their maintainence of said laws, that will always be the closest you get- notwithstanding illegal methods of self-constructed ones. Sorry I couldn't be more help, but I've always found that document to be quite useful. Otherwise, when planning characters, I just like to make a side document with feats I want and list the feats like so: with tabs after the prereqs. For some reason the boards is messing with the formatting right now and it won't let me show them, but tabs can be your best friend in situations like those. I am considering you full statements and the OPs statements. In this post you clearly state that making a list like the page linked from the SRD would be illegal. This is unquestionably false and the statement that began my objection. Neither trademark nor copyright law controls the ability to produce anything, it is only concerned with its distribution. Even then, trademark law does not apply because the feat names are not trademarked. Nor does copyright apply because only covers the form of material expression, not the ideas, information or facts being expressed. In this case it is a case of expressing simple facts and is therefore not illegal as you claim. However, you could also take the SRD verbatim and sell it for a profit as long as you follow the rules of the OGL, essentially all you need to do is update section 15 correctly and distribute the SRD with the modified OGL. In this case you will only be able to include open content or new content created by yourself with the SRD due to the legally binding restrictions of the OGL. You would not be able to distribute a list of all feats and their prerequisites under this arrangement. oh, and you can fix your problem with the boards by using code tags {CODE}...{/CODE} with square brackets rather than curley ones as that preserves tabs and other whitespace.
Perseus_Stoned 04-10-07, 12:02 AM	I am considering you full statements and the OPs statements. In this post you clearly state that making a list like the page linked from the SRD would be illegal. Please quote me on this; I do not see any such "clear statements". This is unquestionably false and the statement that began my objection. Neither trademark nor copyright law controls the ability to produce anything, it is only concerned with its distribution. Even then, trademark law does not apply because the feat names are not trademarked. Nor does copyright apply because only covers the form of material expression, not the ideas, information or facts being expressed. In this case it is a case of expressing simple facts and is therefore not illegal as you claim. While I am not sure on this information, you appear as if you know what you're talking about, so I will make sure to reference you if I am ever in need of a legal opinion on such matters. You have opened my eyes a bit into the legal world of Wizards; however all these points hinge on your earlier statement, one I do not find to be true. However, you could also take the SRD verbatim and sell it for a profit as long as you follow the rules of the OGL, essentially all you need to do is update section 15 correctly and distribute the SRD with the modified OGL. In this case you will only be able to include open content or new content created by yourself with the SRD due to the legally binding restrictions of the OGL. You would not be able to distribute a list of all feats and their prerequisites under this arrangement. This appears as legal jargon to me, though while quite interesting to me, isn't anything I'm concerned with in this case. I have no desire to do such a thing, but again I might reference you later in the future if such a case is necessary. oh, and you can fix your problem with the boards by using code tags {CODE}...{/CODE} with square brackets rather than curley ones as that preserves tabs and other whitespace. Thank you, this was indeed my problem- its been awhile since I've needed to code.
Aaron Highcolor 04-10-07, 08:03 AM	Let me end the arguement and clarify what I[B] meant, since I am the only one who truely knows what I meant. The SRD source was nice, but it did not have [B]ALL the feats that I wanted (which would be a comprehensive list of all feats listed w/ prereqs). Now, it did NOT have to be the SRD source format, as the other 2 that were listed would work just as well. To make it short and restate my original intent, I am looking for a list of all WotC feats (sans descriptions) with prereqs to have handy when creating a new character or leveling one up. Sorry to cause all the chaos and/or confusion.
NobodyRemembersThis 04-10-07, 11:53 AM	Wouldn't it be asier to ask yer DM what feats he will allow? After all, if it is from a source he refuses to use, you are SOL with yer feat choice.
Aaron Highcolor 04-10-07, 06:22 PM	Well, since they use ALL the books, I guess I could...;)