Feat: "Meat Shield" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feat: "Meat Shield" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Leaflitter
07-24-07, 03:42 PM So, I don't think that I have ever seen a feat like this. What do you think?:

Meat Shield: Prerequisites Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes
If you are within 5 feet of an ally you can as an immediate action move between them and the attack and take the damage of the attack. You can only block for one ally but you chose at the time of the attack which one you block for.

Improved Meat Shield: Prerequisites: Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, Meat Shield, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple:
You can shove an opponent in the way of an attack. You can only do this if you are just attacked them or flanking them , and they can be no more than 5 feet from the attack that you are blocking. You can pull an opponent in front of you to block attacks directed at you. You must be aware of the attack. You resolve this with a grapple check.

Feedback, please.

feed back.
foxtail
07-24-07, 03:47 PM Sorry, but there's already a myriad of feats and class abilities (almost all of which have more stringent prerequisites) that allow such things.
Leaflitter
07-24-07, 10:30 PM they would be!?!
weasel05
07-25-07, 12:19 AM Players Handbook 2 (pg 24)
Knight
6th lvl Sheild ally - 1/rd take Half damage for ally
14th lvl Improved sheild ally - 1/rd take all damage for 1 ally
zorgling25
07-25-07, 12:41 AM Or the Devoted Defender PrC from Sword and Fist, which does this at first level.
Leaflitter
07-25-07, 06:03 AM those are all well and good but way to restictive. meat shield is open to every one and makes use there mind when it comes to taking someones damage. also it takes the full attack damage not just half.
Magocrat
07-25-07, 06:12 AM Like others have said, there are other abilities that do this, and they have their prerequisites and entry requirements for a reason: It shouldn't be available to everyone. Just an example here: A spellcaster takes this feat and has protection from arrows. Now, all of a sudden, the spellcaster becomes the warrior's meat shield because of a feat and a spell. Also, if you were to keep this, the phrasing of these feats are bad. As a matter of fact, with one letter, you've actually managed to negate the benefit of your feat. (I'll give you a hint: the erroneous letter is in a word that's supposed to have an apostrophe in it.)

If you want a 'meat shield', then you should take a look at the knight character class in the Player's Handbook II, the fighter and barbarian in the Player's Handbook (which can make excellent 'meat shields' if optimized), and the crusader in the Tome of Battle. The latter is practically everything you'd want in a 'meat shield', and the Stone Dragon and Devoted Spirit maneuvers really help.

Sorry, but these feats are just not going to cut it. If you want 'meat shields', take a look at the character classes I mentioned above.
Bihlbo
07-25-07, 12:07 PM I think that what the OP is after is covered in the rules for readied actions, and shouldn't require a feat.

READY
The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so).

Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.

You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round.

So a fighter could ready himself to move to intercept anyone who closes into melee combat with the wizard. If she did so, she could move in between the attacker and the wizard (if she has enough movement to do so). The attacker would then have to travel through the fighter's squares, drawing attacks of opportunity. Or, the fighter's position could provide a soft cover bonus if the attacker uses a reach weapon.

Something that would be far more useful would be a feat that allows you to ready as a move action rather than a standard action.
Jaxgaret
07-25-07, 05:59 PM Something that would be far more useful would be a feat that allows you to ready as a move action rather than a standard action.

Hey, that's not a bad idea.

It should have a prereq though... maybe Combat Reflexes or Improved Initiative or both, or something along those lines.

Also, as Magocrat stated, this:

Meat Shield: if you are within 5 feet of an ally you cant "jump" between them and the attack and take the bamage of the attack. you must declare this before the attack result is stated.

is already covered in the rules, as you can't "jump" between them to take the damage of an attack on another character.

:)
Leaflitter
07-25-07, 06:21 PM jump was in quotes because it was to give an image not an act.

all right some more thing were added and words were changed. so now if some thing is wrong with the feat give some advice that will make it better not just telling me there is another feat that does that. and just to say i read the knight class feat and it is good but i dont like the class at all. and this is not going to be a feat that blocks half the damage and also it is not going to add a AC bonus.
Jaxgaret
07-25-07, 06:43 PM jump was in quotes because it was to give an image not an act. all right some more thing were added and words were changed.

:facepalm:

You changed everything but what we were talking about, lol.

To Magocrat: this is sheer comedy gold, is it not?
Sigfried Trent
07-25-07, 08:00 PM I agree, this is essentialy something you can do with a readied action. So what you want is a way to work it in as a reactive action instead. Readied actions are super powerful if you think carefuly about how to use them and you are good at predicting what your opponents will do.

Makeing a readied action a move action creates a lot of abuse unless you can only ready move actions when doing so (in which case its probably pretty balanced for a feat cost). Hmmm I should make that for the netbook.

Anyhow.. The idea here is ok, but you really need to work out the details and write the feat with close attention to the rules if you want anyone else to use it. You should take a look at other abbilities that accomplish a similar function and decide if they do what you are after before making a new one.

<Granted with the Netbook we don't do this because our "world" has to exclude everything WTOC does that isn't included in the SRD or in an open source book they publish.>
Leaflitter
07-25-07, 08:34 PM ok i finally sort of get what your trying to tell me.
BrutishCelt
07-25-07, 09:04 PM Please don't misinterpret this as a flame, I'm just trying to help you out with some glaring grammatical errors that cause the English teacher in my head to start screaming at me.

So, I don't think that I have ever seen a feat like this. What do you think?:

Meat Shield:Prerequisites Improved Initiative
If you are within 5 feet of an ally you can move between them and the attack and take the damage of the attack. You must declare this before the attack result is stated.

Improved Meat Shield: Prerequisites: Meat Shield, Improved Initiative, Improved Bull Rush
You can shove an opponent into the way of an attack. You can only do this if you are flanking them or have just attacked them, and they are no more than 5 feet from the attack that you are blocking.

Now, I don't know if this part is too much: You can pull an opponent in front of you to block attacks directed at you. You must be aware of the attack.

Feedback, please.

Having established that [and doubtlessly ended the fun some of you were having - I'm a DM, I'm good at ruining fun], I've got to say that requiring a readied action to intercept the damage is probably a good element to include in the text. I would also add Combat Reflexes to the list of prerequisites.

For Improved Meat Shield, I would say drop the Improved Bull Rush requirement [you're not making anything resembling a bull rush attempt to resolve it], replace it with Improved Grapple, and resolve the action as a grapple check. For a good example of this type of action, check out the Races of Stone book. One of the feats is called "Fling Enemy." That feat allows you to pick up an enemy that's smaller than you and chuck him at his buddies [or over a cliff, or into a prismatic wall, etc].

I like the idea that you've got going here, and I hope that the ideas we've thrown at you can help you refine these feats into something that gets horribly abused in your campaigns. :evillaugh
Leaflitter
07-26-07, 06:24 AM BrutishCelt, thank you for the grammar check(you rolled a 20) I think more people will understand it now.

So I have finally given in and added Combat Reflex to the prerequisites, along with making Improved Meat Shield have Improved Grapple instead of Improved Bull Rush. Also I tried to make it a ready action so if wording is horrible that is what I am trying to say.

So thanks to every one that HEPLED I appreciate it.:bow:
Magocrat
07-26-07, 06:29 AM Let's see. You have copied BrutishCelt's spelling, which is good. (By the way, BrutishCelt, props for handling that in the way that you did.) However, there are still some things I'd just like to say here, because you apparently really want this to happen.

To ready an action as an immediate action to move. You're confusing two types of actions here: The immediate action and the move action that's been readied. The immediate action is an action that's actually far more potent than a readied move action, because you don't need to sacrifice an action with an immediate action. Regardless of that, the phrasing is still rather... clumsy (nothing personal).

Also, what Bihlbo said would make an interesting alternative to your feats.

(By the way, not trying to be stubborn, but what is it about the knight that you don't like? If it's a superficial problem, it can probably easily be fixed.)
Leaflitter
07-27-07, 03:20 PM First, thanks for pointing out the term misunderstanding.
Now for the reason why I don’t like the knight class; well I don’t like that they have to be lawful good or they lose there abilities. But I do know that could be switched with some DM intervention. But also what steers me away from the class is that all my character concepts never fit that build. I’m not a big fan of going out and challenging the crowd, blocking the movement of my foes, or mounted combat. But if I were this would be a great class and by no means am I saying it’s a bad class to play.
BrutishCelt
07-29-07, 08:37 AM This is what you get when you blow all of your extra skill points maxing out [Speak Language] and take feats like [**** Rententive Spelling] and .
:allalone:

Edit: I didn't realize that proper technical terms were included in the [I]Philter of Profanity. Curse you HASBROOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
zorgling25
07-29-07, 11:28 AM First, thanks for pointing out the term misunderstanding.
Now for the reason why I don’t like the knight class; well I don’t like that they have to be lawful good or they lose there abilities. But I do know that could be switched with some DM intervention. But also what steers me away from the class is that all my character concepts never fit that build. I’m not a big fan of going out and challenging the crowd, blocking the movement of my foes, or mounted combat. But if I were this would be a great class and by no means am I saying it’s a bad class to play.

Ask your DM if he'll let you play a Devoted Defender from Sword and Fist.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Leaflitter 07-24-07, 03:42 PM	So, I don't think that I have ever seen a feat like this. What do you think?: Meat Shield: Prerequisites Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes If you are within 5 feet of an ally you can as an immediate action move between them and the attack and take the damage of the attack. You can only block for one ally but you chose at the time of the attack which one you block for. Improved Meat Shield: Prerequisites: Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, Meat Shield, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple: You can shove an opponent in the way of an attack. You can only do this if you are just attacked them or flanking them , and they can be no more than 5 feet from the attack that you are blocking. You can pull an opponent in front of you to block attacks directed at you. You must be aware of the attack. You resolve this with a grapple check. Feedback, please. feed back.
foxtail 07-24-07, 03:47 PM	Sorry, but there's already a myriad of feats and class abilities (almost all of which have more stringent prerequisites) that allow such things.
Leaflitter 07-24-07, 10:30 PM	they would be!?!
weasel05 07-25-07, 12:19 AM	Players Handbook 2 (pg 24) Knight 6th lvl Sheild ally - 1/rd take Half damage for ally 14th lvl Improved sheild ally - 1/rd take all damage for 1 ally
zorgling25 07-25-07, 12:41 AM	Or the Devoted Defender PrC from Sword and Fist, which does this at first level.
Leaflitter 07-25-07, 06:03 AM	those are all well and good but way to restictive. meat shield is open to every one and makes use there mind when it comes to taking someones damage. also it takes the full attack damage not just half.
Magocrat 07-25-07, 06:12 AM	Like others have said, there are other abilities that do this, and they have their prerequisites and entry requirements for a reason: It shouldn't be available to everyone. Just an example here: A spellcaster takes this feat and has protection from arrows. Now, all of a sudden, the spellcaster becomes the warrior's meat shield because of a feat and a spell. Also, if you were to keep this, the phrasing of these feats are bad. As a matter of fact, with one letter, you've actually managed to negate the benefit of your feat. (I'll give you a hint: the erroneous letter is in a word that's supposed to have an apostrophe in it.) If you want a 'meat shield', then you should take a look at the knight character class in the Player's Handbook II, the fighter and barbarian in the Player's Handbook (which can make excellent 'meat shields' if optimized), and the crusader in the Tome of Battle. The latter is practically everything you'd want in a 'meat shield', and the Stone Dragon and Devoted Spirit maneuvers really help. Sorry, but these feats are just not going to cut it. If you want 'meat shields', take a look at the character classes I mentioned above.
Bihlbo 07-25-07, 12:07 PM	I think that what the OP is after is covered in the rules for readied actions, and shouldn't require a feat. READY The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so). Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action. You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round. So a fighter could ready himself to move to intercept anyone who closes into melee combat with the wizard. If she did so, she could move in between the attacker and the wizard (if she has enough movement to do so). The attacker would then have to travel through the fighter's squares, drawing attacks of opportunity. Or, the fighter's position could provide a soft cover bonus if the attacker uses a reach weapon. Something that would be far more useful would be a feat that allows you to ready as a move action rather than a standard action.
Jaxgaret 07-25-07, 05:59 PM	Something that would be far more useful would be a feat that allows you to ready as a move action rather than a standard action. Hey, that's not a bad idea. It should have a prereq though... maybe Combat Reflexes or Improved Initiative or both, or something along those lines. Also, as Magocrat stated, this: Meat Shield: if you are within 5 feet of an ally you cant "jump" between them and the attack and take the bamage of the attack. you must declare this before the attack result is stated. is already covered in the rules, as you can't "jump" between them to take the damage of an attack on another character. :)
Leaflitter 07-25-07, 06:21 PM	jump was in quotes because it was to give an image not an act. all right some more thing were added and words were changed. so now if some thing is wrong with the feat give some advice that will make it better not just telling me there is another feat that does that. and just to say i read the knight class feat and it is good but i dont like the class at all. and this is not going to be a feat that blocks half the damage and also it is not going to add a AC bonus.
Jaxgaret 07-25-07, 06:43 PM	jump was in quotes because it was to give an image not an act. all right some more thing were added and words were changed. :facepalm: You changed everything but what we were talking about, lol. To Magocrat: this is sheer comedy gold, is it not?
Sigfried Trent 07-25-07, 08:00 PM	I agree, this is essentialy something you can do with a readied action. So what you want is a way to work it in as a reactive action instead. Readied actions are super powerful if you think carefuly about how to use them and you are good at predicting what your opponents will do. Makeing a readied action a move action creates a lot of abuse unless you can only ready move actions when doing so (in which case its probably pretty balanced for a feat cost). Hmmm I should make that for the netbook. Anyhow.. The idea here is ok, but you really need to work out the details and write the feat with close attention to the rules if you want anyone else to use it. You should take a look at other abbilities that accomplish a similar function and decide if they do what you are after before making a new one. <Granted with the Netbook we don't do this because our "world" has to exclude everything WTOC does that isn't included in the SRD or in an open source book they publish.>
Leaflitter 07-25-07, 08:34 PM	ok i finally sort of get what your trying to tell me.
BrutishCelt 07-25-07, 09:04 PM	Please don't misinterpret this as a flame, I'm just trying to help you out with some glaring grammatical errors that cause the English teacher in my head to start screaming at me. So, I don't think that I have ever seen a feat like this. What do you think?: Meat Shield:Prerequisites Improved Initiative If you are within 5 feet of an ally you can move between them and the attack and take the damage of the attack. You must declare this before the attack result is stated. Improved Meat Shield: Prerequisites: Meat Shield, Improved Initiative, Improved Bull Rush You can shove an opponent into the way of an attack. You can only do this if you are flanking them or have just attacked them, and they are no more than 5 feet from the attack that you are blocking. Now, I don't know if this part is too much: You can pull an opponent in front of you to block attacks directed at you. You must be aware of the attack. Feedback, please. Having established that [and doubtlessly ended the fun some of you were having - I'm a DM, I'm good at ruining fun], I've got to say that requiring a readied action to intercept the damage is probably a good element to include in the text. I would also add Combat Reflexes to the list of prerequisites. For Improved Meat Shield, I would say drop the Improved Bull Rush requirement [you're not making anything resembling a bull rush attempt to resolve it], replace it with Improved Grapple, and resolve the action as a grapple check. For a good example of this type of action, check out the Races of Stone book. One of the feats is called "Fling Enemy." That feat allows you to pick up an enemy that's smaller than you and chuck him at his buddies [or over a cliff, or into a prismatic wall, etc]. I like the idea that you've got going here, and I hope that the ideas we've thrown at you can help you refine these feats into something that gets horribly abused in your campaigns. :evillaugh
Leaflitter 07-26-07, 06:24 AM	BrutishCelt, thank you for the grammar check(you rolled a 20) I think more people will understand it now. So I have finally given in and added Combat Reflex to the prerequisites, along with making Improved Meat Shield have Improved Grapple instead of Improved Bull Rush. Also I tried to make it a ready action so if wording is horrible that is what I am trying to say. So thanks to every one that HEPLED I appreciate it.:bow:
Magocrat 07-26-07, 06:29 AM	Let's see. You have copied BrutishCelt's spelling, which is good. (By the way, BrutishCelt, props for handling that in the way that you did.) However, there are still some things I'd just like to say here, because you apparently really want this to happen. To ready an action as an immediate action to move. You're confusing two types of actions here: The immediate action and the move action that's been readied. The immediate action is an action that's actually far more potent than a readied move action, because you don't need to sacrifice an action with an immediate action. Regardless of that, the phrasing is still rather... clumsy (nothing personal). Also, what Bihlbo said would make an interesting alternative to your feats. (By the way, not trying to be stubborn, but what is it about the knight that you don't like? If it's a superficial problem, it can probably easily be fixed.)
Leaflitter 07-27-07, 03:20 PM	First, thanks for pointing out the term misunderstanding. Now for the reason why I don’t like the knight class; well I don’t like that they have to be lawful good or they lose there abilities. But I do know that could be switched with some DM intervention. But also what steers me away from the class is that all my character concepts never fit that build. I’m not a big fan of going out and challenging the crowd, blocking the movement of my foes, or mounted combat. But if I were this would be a great class and by no means am I saying it’s a bad class to play.
BrutishCelt 07-29-07, 08:37 AM	This is what you get when you blow all of your extra skill points maxing out [Speak Language] and take feats like [**** Rententive Spelling] and . :allalone: Edit: I didn't realize that proper technical terms were included in the [I]Philter of Profanity. Curse you HASBROOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
zorgling25 07-29-07, 11:28 AM	First, thanks for pointing out the term misunderstanding. Now for the reason why I don’t like the knight class; well I don’t like that they have to be lawful good or they lose there abilities. But I do know that could be switched with some DM intervention. But also what steers me away from the class is that all my character concepts never fit that build. I’m not a big fan of going out and challenging the crowd, blocking the movement of my foes, or mounted combat. But if I were this would be a great class and by no means am I saying it’s a bad class to play. Ask your DM if he'll let you play a Devoted Defender from Sword and Fist.