Feats for a melee cleric. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feats for a melee cleric. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arminel
03-13-08, 08:50 PM So I'm in a game and need some feats for my cleric, but have a few ways I can go. I won't be changing my current class progress or race or anything. Tome of Battle is out and for my DMs peace of mind, I'm forsaking Divine Metamagic.

Goron Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 3
Str 20
Dex 12
Con 17
Int 12
Wis 16
Cha 16
HP: 60

Fort: +9
Ref: +2
Will: +9

Skills:
Prereqs + Spot/Listen/Sense Motive maxed.

Feats:
(1) Blood Inscription (custom feat, extra spell per spell level per day)
(Flaw)
(3) Protection Devotion
(6)

Domains:
Protection
War

I won't be getting rid of the two I currently have. Because the flavor of the character, I was thinking Alertness and Skill Focus: Sense Motive. For damage-dealing, I figured Power Attack + [something] wouldn't be a bad choice. For better overall "tank"ing, I thought Extra Turning to fuel my Protection Devotion, or perhaps Heavy Armor Optimization from Races of Stone. Also, since I do have natural armor built-in to the class, perhaps Improved Natural Armor wouldn't be a bad choice as well. My party role is support caster + main melee tank.
HARLEYDUDE
03-14-08, 12:22 PM A couple of ideas come to mind. I play a melee cleric as well.
What kind of weapon do you have? Who is your God?

A reach weapon (ie. glaive or long spear for example) used with Rightous Might and you will control the battlefield. With this build you will need short haft, and combat reflexes to get all those AoO's.

As a melee tank, power attack and cleave come to mind. Blind fight is always helpful.

Your Ref is low so maybe Lightning reflexes.

If you are going to be more ranged attacking with spells or a bow, Zen Archery will help.

I just looked at your stats again, why is your Wis so low? That should be your highest stat. With that you can only cast 3rd level spells.
As a melee cleric your 2 main spells should be Rightous might 5th level and divine power 4th level. Divine Power is also a war doman spell. I know you can't cast these yet at level 6 but looking forward in the future, these are a must. Together they add 14 pts of Str. Plus full BAB, more AC, CON, extra hp, and DR/evil.+++
At your current Wis you will never be able to cast them.

Is this a short term chara? How high of level do you think this chara will be played?

Well that is my 2 cents.
I'd like to help more if you can answer my questions.

HD
Arminel
03-14-08, 12:45 PM The God is Tempest, a Lawful Good God of War with the domains Good, Law, Protection, Strength, and War with the favored weapon being Warhammer.

I looked at reach weapon + combat reflexes, but with a 12 dex that only adds 1 AoO. I know Cat's Grace or a magical weapon could cure that, but I don't see a lot of mileage out of that for this particular character. Power Attack and Cleave were ideas I had, though I thought Improved Bullrush might have been a better idea. I've never thought too highly of Blind Fight to be honest.

My Reflex save I'm not too worried about, except for the lack of ranks in Balance and the Grease spell, though I'm pretty sure my DM won't take advantage of that. Zen Archery is a decent idea, but I think I'd be better off with Brutal Throw.

My Wisdom isn't low, the base stats were 17, 16, 16, 15, 14, 14. Just I have Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, +1 from level 4, and +2 racial bonus. I figured as a melee cleric, my wisdom doesn't need to be my highest since spellcasting will be buffs, heals, and caster level based spells (ie. Dispel Magic). In theory, I could swap stats and do this:

Str 20 (16 + 2 racial + 2 item)
Dex 12
Con 17
Int 12
Wis 18 (17 + 1 level)
Cha 16

However, when I don't necessarily need the higher save DCs and it will only net me an extra 4th level spell per day (setting up for an extra 5th with items admittedly) and boost my Spot/Listen/Sense Motive/Will saves. Righteous Might and Divine Power will likely be two of my main buffs upon reaching the appropriate level, but neither of those are scaled by Wisdom, and I have enough to cast 6th level spells, which can easily be increased by 15th level.

The character will likely be played until about level 14-15
riddles
03-14-08, 01:12 PM My Wisdom isn't low, the base stats were 17, 16, 16, 15, 14, 14. Just I have Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, +1 from level 4, and +2 racial bonus. I figured as a melee cleric, my wisdom doesn't need to be my highest since spellcasting will be buffs, heals, and caster level based spells (ie. Dispel Magic). In theory, I could swap stats and do this:

Str 20 (16 + 2 racial + 2 item)
Dex 12
Con 17
Int 12
Wis 18 (17 + 1 level)
Cha 16

However, when I don't necessarily need the higher save DCs and it will only net me an extra 4th level spell per day (setting up for an extra 5th with items admittedly) and boost my Spot/Listen/Sense Motive/Will saves.

that extra 4th level spell is an extra divine power, which is not to be sniffed at.
1 ton ghost
03-14-08, 01:32 PM Intuitive Strike (Book of Exalted Deeds) subs Wis for Str for Simple Weapons and something else i think. this has turned alot of Clr's into powerhouses very quickly. however, you'll want to keep a 13 Str at least to maintain PA and/or Cleave.
Cleave has always served well, especially at low lvl. you're not getting a full attack until 8th lvl as a Clr, picking up a theoretical 2nd attack now isn't bad. if you're gonna' be in melee alot anyway, you should. you'll be close enough to heal other PCs, but if you're gonna' be in the mix, you might as well take out as many combatants as possible.
HARLEYDUDE
03-14-08, 04:23 PM I understand the thought for not having a high Wis because the buff spells you want to use dont "scale" or need a higher DC. Also I usually get confused with ability score and ability modifer when it comes to how high a level you can cast. Sorry, my bad.

I agree with you that your low Dex will not give you many AoO's so combat ref is out.

With what you have said Id go the cleave route. However at level 9 dont go greater cleave. at that level it isnt worth it.

If i think of any more ill let you know.

HD
navar100
03-14-08, 05:07 PM A 20 ST is rather nice. You're not going to need buff spells for hit and damage much. Divine Power will only give you a net +2 Strength since its strength bonus is an enhancement bonus like your gauntlets, so it's not worth casting a 4th level spell slot despite the BAB. Righteous Might is worth casting when you can cast 5th level spells since it's a size bonus to strength.

You may want to consider Extend Spell. Extended Magic Vestment will help a lot. If you use Power Attack, you wouldn't want a shield to use a weapon two-handed. If not, then a regular Magic Vestment for armor or shield and Extemded Magic Vestment for the other pumps your AC and spreads the spell resource. When the normal duration lasts long enough for you, Extend Spell is still useful for other spell. I personally like Extend Heroes' Feast for 24 hour protection. (My previous character called it Heroes' Breakfast.)

If you find yourself casting a low level non-Cure Wounds spell a lot during every combat, Quicken Spell helps with time management. You can still attack after or before casting the spell to save a round.

If you like to cast Greater Magic Weapon, then you may want to consider Improved Sunder since simple enhancement magic weapons aren't as important to the party should you happen to sunder one unknowingly. Destroying bad guy weapons will hamper their ability to hurt you and your party.
Eerongal
03-14-08, 05:17 PM you may like holy warrior from complete champion. Obviously i can't give out all the specifics, but basically it gives you a + to damage (unnamed i think) equal to highest level domain spell you have prepared. So for example, having your 7th level war domain spell uncast gets you +7 to melee damage. Not a whole lot in the long run, but every littlebit helps.
Arminel
03-14-08, 09:37 PM I have the Complete Champion actually, and Holy Warrior I'm planning on, but it is available at 7th level for me since it requires 4th-level spells. Thanks for the advice so far guys, I do truly appreciate it.

I think the problem I'm having is learning to truly commit to a feat tree. With that said, here are my thoughts.

-Extend Spell, great idea, so much that I wish I had thought of it myself. After looking at Magic Vestment, I see the hours/level duration which had not been previously apparent. 12 hours a day for a 4th level slot? Sounds like win. Also means I can not get Full Plate Armor +1, leaving more money to spend on other items.

-Intuitive Attack, another great idea, but the best I could do as far as Wisdom would be 20 with a Periapht of Wisdom +2. While I realize it seems silly, most of my characters (Bard/Wizard/Druid) always have their casting stat as their highest and rely on spells which is something I'd like to avoid as silly as it may seem. Also, I annoying gave the DM an idea of a chain fighter build, making the higher strength greatly appreciated.

-I have Weapon Focus: Warhammer and like the flavor of using it. For now, I'll be using it and a shield to make up for my d8 hit die. Combined with Full Plate Armor, Protection Devotion, and the +2 natural armor I get from my race, I don't want to be touched by anything resembling a fighter. The first and biggest investment I want to make is in an Animated Heavy Shield +1 and wield my Warhammer in two hands. At that point, I'll probably snatch Power Attack.

-Divine Power, though I did want to use and abuse this spell, I forgot about the +6 enhancement bonus. This means I'll probably ditch the Gauntlets of Ogre Strength for now in favor of other magical items. Until then, a Bull's Strength per combat should easily suffice. Also, I should have a second attack next level (7th) with Divine Power, making Cleave

-Improved Sunder, I like this idea. We have been fighting a lot of humanoids, including a couple in armor.

-Extra 4th level spell means extra Divine Power per day, that is true. That also means when my wisdom goes up by another 2 points, I'll have an extra Righteous Might per day. Tempting argument.

I've got some time to think about this, but you've all given me good ideas, so thank you everyone.
Redclock_the_Untimely
03-16-08, 02:37 AM I would recommend the healing reserve feat from Complete Champion, I think its called Touch of Healing, but am not entirely sure. It can go a long way in keeping your spell slots available for buffs and stuff and cut down on cash loss from wand purchases. Depending on your campaign I might recommend Craft Magic Arms and Armor or Craft Wondrous Item, but only if you have the game time to use them. Oddly enough I am currently playing a similar character. Lower stats, but the same domains and PrC.

Happy gaming.
Arminel
03-16-08, 04:42 AM ^Sadly, I tried with Touch of Healing, but my DM disallowed it. Item Creation feats are not allowed either due to irregular XP gains (we literally use a DM-whenever-he-wants x/10 bar that he keeps track of). Leadership is also disallowed.
Baninor
03-16-08, 10:56 AM Normally when making a melee cleric I don't have enough points to put anything into charisma, since mostly all my points are shoved into str, wis, con. But you have the rare opportunity to take advantage of the Divine Feats.

Divine Might, Divine Shield and depending on how much undead you will fight, Sacred Vengence. All from the Complete Warrior.
Nathreet
03-16-08, 11:45 AM For your RP stuff I'd say track would be a better feat than alertness. It just seems like a much better way to find people. And I think there's a cleric domain that gives survival as a class skill.

For a melee combatant, don't forget the basics. +1 often means a +10% chance, especially for a character with medium AB and medium AC. Presumably both the PC and the monster needs to roll a 10 to hit in that situation. If you have a high AC, we may be talking 1 of ~5, or -20% per point of AC. 10% and 20% aren't small potatoes. That means weapon focus and dodge are essential. Yes, dodge. Unless you'll be facing multiple opponents in melee at the same time, another +1 is nothing to sneeze at. For gear likewise get a MW weapon and armor/shield/ring AC enchantments. Because +1 AC is cheap, whereas to improve on a MW weapon you need to pay for a +2 magic weapon. I presume heavy armor optimization gives an AC bonus? Then get that too.

Beyond that pick whatever feats you need for your general strategy. A lot of tanks like improved trip, for example. Make sure it's a feat you can use often, or it won't be as good as it may seem. If you're out of feats but want a very handy feat, then ask yourself whether or not it's better than dealing 10% more damage or receiving 10%+ less damage almost all of the time.
Divisionbyzer0
03-16-08, 12:17 PM So I'm in a game and need some feats for my cleric, but have a few ways I can go. I won't be changing my current class progress or race or anything. Tome of Battle is out and for my DMs peace of mind, I'm forsaking Divine Metamagic.

Goron Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 3
Str 20
Dex 12
Con 17
Int 12
Wis 16
Cha 16
HP: 60

Fort: +9
Ref: +2
Will: +9

Skills:
Prereqs + Spot/Listen/Sense Motive maxed.

Feats:
(1) Blood Inscription (custom feat, extra spell per spell level per day)
(Flaw)
(3) Protection Devotion
(6)

Domains:
Protection
War

I won't be getting rid of the two I currently have. Because the flavor of the character, I was thinking Alertness and Skill Focus: Sense Motive. For damage-dealing, I figured Power Attack + [something] wouldn't be a bad choice. For better overall "tank"ing, I thought Extra Turning to fuel my Protection Devotion, or perhaps Heavy Armor Optimization from Races of Stone. Also, since I do have natural armor built-in to the class, perhaps Improved Natural Armor wouldn't be a bad choice as well. My party role is support caster + main melee tank.

Personally, I would never select skill focus or the feats that give +4 net to skills, unless I needed to qualify for a PrC. Better skills just aren't as good as the other benefits you can get from feats. Ones that let you use different stats for multiple skills might be good though, like agile athlete, for example with a character with a 7 str but a 19 dex, that would be an effective +6 on both jump and climb.
Arminel
03-18-08, 02:06 AM Sadly, I don't have access to the Nature domain. Alternatively, survival and Track would be an awesome idea. Otherwise, I'll use divinations.

Though this is the Skills/Feats area, I might as well add some items I was looking at:

-Rod of Lesser Extend, for some of my buffs, namely Magic Vestment.
-Brute Gauntlets, cheap for what they offer.
-Heartseeking Amulet, especially if I take Power Attack.
-Cord of Favor, +5 to Sense Motive (a skill I'm quasi-serious about) and spontaneously cast Divine Favor 3/day
-Wand of Detect Magic/Light, so I have room for other 0-level spells, or so I have extras if needed
-Wand of Lesser Vigor, out of combat healing.
-Reliquary Holy Symbol, extra Turn Undead attempts and slotless. I'm already thinking of taking a Divine feat (Divine Vigor) and 5 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) is something everyone should have.
HARLEYDUDE
03-19-08, 11:33 AM -Reliquary Holy Symbol, extra Turn Undead attempts and slotless. .

I have been looking for this item for a while, what book is it in?
thanks

HD
Brehon
03-20-08, 04:01 PM Law Devotion might be a good feat chioce for you. It gives you a level-dependent bonus to attck rolls or AC for 1 minute. Plus you can switch the bonus from attack rolls to AC on a per round basis. And, dependent on how your DM interprets the Domain Feat rules, you can use extra Turn Undead attempts to use it more than once per day.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arminel 03-13-08, 08:50 PM	So I'm in a game and need some feats for my cleric, but have a few ways I can go. I won't be changing my current class progress or race or anything. Tome of Battle is out and for my DMs peace of mind, I'm forsaking Divine Metamagic. Goron Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 3 Str 20 Dex 12 Con 17 Int 12 Wis 16 Cha 16 HP: 60 Fort: +9 Ref: +2 Will: +9 Skills: Prereqs + Spot/Listen/Sense Motive maxed. Feats: (1) Blood Inscription (custom feat, extra spell per spell level per day) (Flaw) (3) Protection Devotion (6) Domains: Protection War I won't be getting rid of the two I currently have. Because the flavor of the character, I was thinking Alertness and Skill Focus: Sense Motive. For damage-dealing, I figured Power Attack + [something] wouldn't be a bad choice. For better overall "tank"ing, I thought Extra Turning to fuel my Protection Devotion, or perhaps Heavy Armor Optimization from Races of Stone. Also, since I do have natural armor built-in to the class, perhaps Improved Natural Armor wouldn't be a bad choice as well. My party role is support caster + main melee tank.
HARLEYDUDE 03-14-08, 12:22 PM	A couple of ideas come to mind. I play a melee cleric as well. What kind of weapon do you have? Who is your God? A reach weapon (ie. glaive or long spear for example) used with Rightous Might and you will control the battlefield. With this build you will need short haft, and combat reflexes to get all those AoO's. As a melee tank, power attack and cleave come to mind. Blind fight is always helpful. Your Ref is low so maybe Lightning reflexes. If you are going to be more ranged attacking with spells or a bow, Zen Archery will help. I just looked at your stats again, why is your Wis so low? That should be your highest stat. With that you can only cast 3rd level spells. As a melee cleric your 2 main spells should be Rightous might 5th level and divine power 4th level. Divine Power is also a war doman spell. I know you can't cast these yet at level 6 but looking forward in the future, these are a must. Together they add 14 pts of Str. Plus full BAB, more AC, CON, extra hp, and DR/evil.+++ At your current Wis you will never be able to cast them. Is this a short term chara? How high of level do you think this chara will be played? Well that is my 2 cents. I'd like to help more if you can answer my questions. HD
Arminel 03-14-08, 12:45 PM	The God is Tempest, a Lawful Good God of War with the domains Good, Law, Protection, Strength, and War with the favored weapon being Warhammer. I looked at reach weapon + combat reflexes, but with a 12 dex that only adds 1 AoO. I know Cat's Grace or a magical weapon could cure that, but I don't see a lot of mileage out of that for this particular character. Power Attack and Cleave were ideas I had, though I thought Improved Bullrush might have been a better idea. I've never thought too highly of Blind Fight to be honest. My Reflex save I'm not too worried about, except for the lack of ranks in Balance and the Grease spell, though I'm pretty sure my DM won't take advantage of that. Zen Archery is a decent idea, but I think I'd be better off with Brutal Throw. My Wisdom isn't low, the base stats were 17, 16, 16, 15, 14, 14. Just I have Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, +1 from level 4, and +2 racial bonus. I figured as a melee cleric, my wisdom doesn't need to be my highest since spellcasting will be buffs, heals, and caster level based spells (ie. Dispel Magic). In theory, I could swap stats and do this: Str 20 (16 + 2 racial + 2 item) Dex 12 Con 17 Int 12 Wis 18 (17 + 1 level) Cha 16 However, when I don't necessarily need the higher save DCs and it will only net me an extra 4th level spell per day (setting up for an extra 5th with items admittedly) and boost my Spot/Listen/Sense Motive/Will saves. Righteous Might and Divine Power will likely be two of my main buffs upon reaching the appropriate level, but neither of those are scaled by Wisdom, and I have enough to cast 6th level spells, which can easily be increased by 15th level. The character will likely be played until about level 14-15
riddles 03-14-08, 01:12 PM	My Wisdom isn't low, the base stats were 17, 16, 16, 15, 14, 14. Just I have Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, +1 from level 4, and +2 racial bonus. I figured as a melee cleric, my wisdom doesn't need to be my highest since spellcasting will be buffs, heals, and caster level based spells (ie. Dispel Magic). In theory, I could swap stats and do this: Str 20 (16 + 2 racial + 2 item) Dex 12 Con 17 Int 12 Wis 18 (17 + 1 level) Cha 16 However, when I don't necessarily need the higher save DCs and it will only net me an extra 4th level spell per day (setting up for an extra 5th with items admittedly) and boost my Spot/Listen/Sense Motive/Will saves. that extra 4th level spell is an extra divine power, which is not to be sniffed at.
1 ton ghost 03-14-08, 01:32 PM	Intuitive Strike (Book of Exalted Deeds) subs Wis for Str for Simple Weapons and something else i think. this has turned alot of Clr's into powerhouses very quickly. however, you'll want to keep a 13 Str at least to maintain PA and/or Cleave. Cleave has always served well, especially at low lvl. you're not getting a full attack until 8th lvl as a Clr, picking up a theoretical 2nd attack now isn't bad. if you're gonna' be in melee alot anyway, you should. you'll be close enough to heal other PCs, but if you're gonna' be in the mix, you might as well take out as many combatants as possible.
HARLEYDUDE 03-14-08, 04:23 PM	I understand the thought for not having a high Wis because the buff spells you want to use dont "scale" or need a higher DC. Also I usually get confused with ability score and ability modifer when it comes to how high a level you can cast. Sorry, my bad. I agree with you that your low Dex will not give you many AoO's so combat ref is out. With what you have said Id go the cleave route. However at level 9 dont go greater cleave. at that level it isnt worth it. If i think of any more ill let you know. HD
navar100 03-14-08, 05:07 PM	A 20 ST is rather nice. You're not going to need buff spells for hit and damage much. Divine Power will only give you a net +2 Strength since its strength bonus is an enhancement bonus like your gauntlets, so it's not worth casting a 4th level spell slot despite the BAB. Righteous Might is worth casting when you can cast 5th level spells since it's a size bonus to strength. You may want to consider Extend Spell. Extended Magic Vestment will help a lot. If you use Power Attack, you wouldn't want a shield to use a weapon two-handed. If not, then a regular Magic Vestment for armor or shield and Extemded Magic Vestment for the other pumps your AC and spreads the spell resource. When the normal duration lasts long enough for you, Extend Spell is still useful for other spell. I personally like Extend Heroes' Feast for 24 hour protection. (My previous character called it Heroes' Breakfast.) If you find yourself casting a low level non-Cure Wounds spell a lot during every combat, Quicken Spell helps with time management. You can still attack after or before casting the spell to save a round. If you like to cast Greater Magic Weapon, then you may want to consider Improved Sunder since simple enhancement magic weapons aren't as important to the party should you happen to sunder one unknowingly. Destroying bad guy weapons will hamper their ability to hurt you and your party.
Eerongal 03-14-08, 05:17 PM	you may like holy warrior from complete champion. Obviously i can't give out all the specifics, but basically it gives you a + to damage (unnamed i think) equal to highest level domain spell you have prepared. So for example, having your 7th level war domain spell uncast gets you +7 to melee damage. Not a whole lot in the long run, but every littlebit helps.
Arminel 03-14-08, 09:37 PM	I have the Complete Champion actually, and Holy Warrior I'm planning on, but it is available at 7th level for me since it requires 4th-level spells. Thanks for the advice so far guys, I do truly appreciate it. I think the problem I'm having is learning to truly commit to a feat tree. With that said, here are my thoughts. -Extend Spell, great idea, so much that I wish I had thought of it myself. After looking at Magic Vestment, I see the hours/level duration which had not been previously apparent. 12 hours a day for a 4th level slot? Sounds like win. Also means I can not get Full Plate Armor +1, leaving more money to spend on other items. -Intuitive Attack, another great idea, but the best I could do as far as Wisdom would be 20 with a Periapht of Wisdom +2. While I realize it seems silly, most of my characters (Bard/Wizard/Druid) always have their casting stat as their highest and rely on spells which is something I'd like to avoid as silly as it may seem. Also, I annoying gave the DM an idea of a chain fighter build, making the higher strength greatly appreciated. -I have Weapon Focus: Warhammer and like the flavor of using it. For now, I'll be using it and a shield to make up for my d8 hit die. Combined with Full Plate Armor, Protection Devotion, and the +2 natural armor I get from my race, I don't want to be touched by anything resembling a fighter. The first and biggest investment I want to make is in an Animated Heavy Shield +1 and wield my Warhammer in two hands. At that point, I'll probably snatch Power Attack. -Divine Power, though I did want to use and abuse this spell, I forgot about the +6 enhancement bonus. This means I'll probably ditch the Gauntlets of Ogre Strength for now in favor of other magical items. Until then, a Bull's Strength per combat should easily suffice. Also, I should have a second attack next level (7th) with Divine Power, making Cleave -Improved Sunder, I like this idea. We have been fighting a lot of humanoids, including a couple in armor. -Extra 4th level spell means extra Divine Power per day, that is true. That also means when my wisdom goes up by another 2 points, I'll have an extra Righteous Might per day. Tempting argument. I've got some time to think about this, but you've all given me good ideas, so thank you everyone.
Redclock_the_Untimely 03-16-08, 02:37 AM	I would recommend the healing reserve feat from Complete Champion, I think its called Touch of Healing, but am not entirely sure. It can go a long way in keeping your spell slots available for buffs and stuff and cut down on cash loss from wand purchases. Depending on your campaign I might recommend Craft Magic Arms and Armor or Craft Wondrous Item, but only if you have the game time to use them. Oddly enough I am currently playing a similar character. Lower stats, but the same domains and PrC. Happy gaming.
Arminel 03-16-08, 04:42 AM	^Sadly, I tried with Touch of Healing, but my DM disallowed it. Item Creation feats are not allowed either due to irregular XP gains (we literally use a DM-whenever-he-wants x/10 bar that he keeps track of). Leadership is also disallowed.
Baninor 03-16-08, 10:56 AM	Normally when making a melee cleric I don't have enough points to put anything into charisma, since mostly all my points are shoved into str, wis, con. But you have the rare opportunity to take advantage of the Divine Feats. Divine Might, Divine Shield and depending on how much undead you will fight, Sacred Vengence. All from the Complete Warrior.
Nathreet 03-16-08, 11:45 AM	For your RP stuff I'd say track would be a better feat than alertness. It just seems like a much better way to find people. And I think there's a cleric domain that gives survival as a class skill. For a melee combatant, don't forget the basics. +1 often means a +10% chance, especially for a character with medium AB and medium AC. Presumably both the PC and the monster needs to roll a 10 to hit in that situation. If you have a high AC, we may be talking 1 of ~5, or -20% per point of AC. 10% and 20% aren't small potatoes. That means weapon focus and dodge are essential. Yes, dodge. Unless you'll be facing multiple opponents in melee at the same time, another +1 is nothing to sneeze at. For gear likewise get a MW weapon and armor/shield/ring AC enchantments. Because +1 AC is cheap, whereas to improve on a MW weapon you need to pay for a +2 magic weapon. I presume heavy armor optimization gives an AC bonus? Then get that too. Beyond that pick whatever feats you need for your general strategy. A lot of tanks like improved trip, for example. Make sure it's a feat you can use often, or it won't be as good as it may seem. If you're out of feats but want a very handy feat, then ask yourself whether or not it's better than dealing 10% more damage or receiving 10%+ less damage almost all of the time.
Divisionbyzer0 03-16-08, 12:17 PM	So I'm in a game and need some feats for my cleric, but have a few ways I can go. I won't be changing my current class progress or race or anything. Tome of Battle is out and for my DMs peace of mind, I'm forsaking Divine Metamagic. Goron Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 3 Str 20 Dex 12 Con 17 Int 12 Wis 16 Cha 16 HP: 60 Fort: +9 Ref: +2 Will: +9 Skills: Prereqs + Spot/Listen/Sense Motive maxed. Feats: (1) Blood Inscription (custom feat, extra spell per spell level per day) (Flaw) (3) Protection Devotion (6) Domains: Protection War I won't be getting rid of the two I currently have. Because the flavor of the character, I was thinking Alertness and Skill Focus: Sense Motive. For damage-dealing, I figured Power Attack + [something] wouldn't be a bad choice. For better overall "tank"ing, I thought Extra Turning to fuel my Protection Devotion, or perhaps Heavy Armor Optimization from Races of Stone. Also, since I do have natural armor built-in to the class, perhaps Improved Natural Armor wouldn't be a bad choice as well. My party role is support caster + main melee tank. Personally, I would never select skill focus or the feats that give +4 net to skills, unless I needed to qualify for a PrC. Better skills just aren't as good as the other benefits you can get from feats. Ones that let you use different stats for multiple skills might be good though, like agile athlete, for example with a character with a 7 str but a 19 dex, that would be an effective +6 on both jump and climb.
Arminel 03-18-08, 02:06 AM	Sadly, I don't have access to the Nature domain. Alternatively, survival and Track would be an awesome idea. Otherwise, I'll use divinations. Though this is the Skills/Feats area, I might as well add some items I was looking at: -Rod of Lesser Extend, for some of my buffs, namely Magic Vestment. -Brute Gauntlets, cheap for what they offer. -Heartseeking Amulet, especially if I take Power Attack. -Cord of Favor, +5 to Sense Motive (a skill I'm quasi-serious about) and spontaneously cast Divine Favor 3/day -Wand of Detect Magic/Light, so I have room for other 0-level spells, or so I have extras if needed -Wand of Lesser Vigor, out of combat healing. -Reliquary Holy Symbol, extra Turn Undead attempts and slotless. I'm already thinking of taking a Divine feat (Divine Vigor) and 5 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) is something everyone should have.
HARLEYDUDE 03-19-08, 11:33 AM	-Reliquary Holy Symbol, extra Turn Undead attempts and slotless. . I have been looking for this item for a while, what book is it in? thanks HD
Brehon 03-20-08, 04:01 PM	Law Devotion might be a good feat chioce for you. It gives you a level-dependent bonus to attck rolls or AC for 1 minute. Plus you can switch the bonus from attack rolls to AC on a per round basis. And, dependent on how your DM interprets the Domain Feat rules, you can use extra Turn Undead attempts to use it more than once per day.