Feats for a shield user [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feats for a shield user [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lusiphur2525
03-13-07, 12:08 AM After seeing the AWESOME movie 300, I thought it would be cool to make a few npc chartacters for my game that fought like the Spartans. Any good ideas for feats to give them for shield bonuses? Also, does anyone know of a place to look up what a feat does? I went to the feat index, but there is no long description, just a brief one. Thanks in advance.
Stardust
03-13-07, 12:13 AM The Player's Handbook 2 has a whole bunch of feats to maximise shield potential (Check out the 'Shield Specialization' tree). Can't post them on the boards, 'cause they're not Open Game Content, but if you have the book, or have access to a friend's book, then that's probably the way forward.
SoulReaverX
03-13-07, 12:54 AM i believe there is more shield related feats in complete warrior as well
at least 1 or 2 of them.
Johannixx
03-13-07, 02:43 AM It depends on if you want to TWF with the shield or not. TWF with a shield is VERY feat-intensive, and the payout is pretty low compared to other specialized forms of damage-dealing.

Also, if you want to do some serious Spartan-style slaughtering, I would suggest houseruling the spear so that it can be used as a one-handed martial weapon as well as a two-handed simple weapon.
Dead_Weasel
03-13-07, 03:34 AM CW: Shield Ward, Phalanx Fighting, Shield Charge, Shield Slam
HoB: Block Arrow, Shield Wall
PHB2: Active Shield Defense, Agile Shield Fighter, Shield Specialization, Shield Ward
RoS: Focused Shield, Shielded Axe

Specifically, Phalanx Fighting and Shield Wall are very 300 Spartan-y.
Shortspears are already one-handed weapons. They can be thrown, too.
If you really want a bigger spear in one hand, well, that's what Monkey Grip (CW) is for.
Baron Rod
03-13-07, 03:57 AM Google the Netbook of Feats, version 12 is out now. It has alot of feats for shield fighting. It also has one to use a spear and shield together.

Baron Rod
DMaple
03-14-07, 07:19 AM You might want Formation Expert from Complete Warrior as well, but really that and some of the other shield feats only work well if you allies are also using a shield.

Leadership perhaps?

If you are looking purely for defense then you could have Shield Specialization, Phalanx Fighting, Formation Expert, Shield Wall. Assuming you get between allies also using shields and have Phalanx Fighting. Then your total AC bonus from using a heavy shield would be +9 (not including any magical bonus). So there is a good case for Leadership and making sure your followers and cohort are trained in Phalanx fighting.

Knights (PHB2) get a nice AC bonus to their Shield, but obviously a Fighter is handy for the bonus feats (most shield feats count as bonus fighter feats).

If you aren't looking for defense just fun things to do with your shield then probably

It's going to be a lot of feats Improved Shield Bash + Shield Specialization -> Agile Shield Fighter. Pretty much does what you could do with Two Weapon Fighting, but with a AC boost.

The problem with any Shield based fighter is, a magical Animated Shield means most of your feats are wasted purely for style. Why have Improved Shield Bash, Shield Spec (heavy), Agile Shield Fighter just to have a shield bash and AC at -2 to hit.
When a Fighter could go Two Weapon Fighting, use a light off hand weapon do the same off-hand damage and have two feats to spend as he likes, and get and animated Shield a similar shield AC bonus. You've basically used two extra feats extra, but saved a bit of cash.

For that reason feats like Shield Charge and Shield Slam, that let you do stuff that isn't so easily replicated by other feats make more interesting options to me.
Banatine
03-14-07, 09:07 AM The problem with any Shield based fighter is, a magical Animated Shield means most of your feats are wasted purely for style. Why have Improved Shield Bash, Shield Spec (heavy), Agile Shield Fighter just to have a shield bash and AC at -2 to hit.
When a Fighter could go Two Weapon Fighting, use a light off hand weapon do the same off-hand damage and have two feats to spend as he likes, and get and animated Shield a similar shield AC bonus. You've basically used two extra feats extra, but saved a bit of cash.

For that reason feats like Shield Charge and Shield Slam, that let you do stuff that isn't so easily replicated by other feats make more interesting options to me.

He doesnt want to 'waste' feats for style, he wants to use feats for character, which seems to be a concept lost recently.

EDIT: in answer to the OP's question, you can find every shield feat you will ever need in PHB2 and CW.

Just because TWF with an animated sheild is better, doesnt mean its characterful. Its just munchkiny. Personally, I prefer character over power.

My character is a Duskblade who uses agile sheild fighter, and I am no less effective in combat than our swordsage. I would rather use my money on making my shield better as a shield and weapon, than paying money to improve two weapons and a shield. The reason being it is more characteful.
DMaple
03-14-07, 09:26 AM Check my other thread Agile Shield Fighter actually stacks with TWF, so you get your Shield Bash and other attack at -0/-0 penalty, in fact when you get Improved TWF, you'd get your second off hand attack at only -1 instead of -5.

So you can have style (character) and still be a munchkin. :D
Goreg Skullcrusher
03-14-07, 05:11 PM Spartan, Ftr6
Medium Humanoid (Human)
Hit Dice: 6d10 + 12 (49 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+2 dex, +3 shield), touch 15, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+10
Attack: MW Shortspear +11 melee (1d6+4/x2)
Full Attack: MW Shortspear +11/+6 melee (1d6+4/x2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities:
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +4, Will +1
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 11
Skills: Jump +13, Climb +13
Feats: Phalanx Fighting, Shield Specialization, Shield Ward, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Formation Expert, Precise Swing, Lunging Strike

Here's a Spartan build I whipped up using 28-point buy. Under optimal conditions the "internal" members of the Shield wall have 19 AC and +13 to hit. Not too shabby considering I didn't give them armor. (I normally play low-magic campaigns, so I didn't deck them out in magic gear either)

He'd probably make a better NPC than a PC. Unless you have 8 friends who want to use identical builds. :P

Edit: I just realized that the shortspear isn't a light weapon, and thus doesn't mesh with Phalanx Fighting so well. This is probably the designers choice for balance trumping realism. Aside from possibly the short sword I don't see any light weapons that are more appropriate in a Phalanx formation than a spear.
primemover003
03-14-07, 05:15 PM If you really want a bigger spear in one hand, well, that's what Monkey Grip (CW) is for.
Monkey Grip does not allow you to wield a two handed weapon in one hand. It allows you to use a larger weapon normally (in regard to being light, one handed, or two handed). You can't take monkey grip to wield a medium greatsword in one hand.

Using a spear in one hand as a martial weapon is a perfectly reasonable house rule.
Banatine
03-15-07, 08:35 AM Check my other thread Agile Shield Fighter actually stacks with TWF, so you get your Shield Bash and other attack at -0/-0 penalty, in fact when you get Improved TWF, you'd get your second off hand attack at only -1 instead of -5.

So you can have style (character) and still be a munchkin. :D

Actually, considering that ASF replaces all normal bonuses and penaties of TWF (and it explicitly says so in it's text), they won't stack at all.

ASF is basically combining oversized TWF with TWD. Power like that wouldn't stack with the TWF feat. It would make sword-and-shield fighting better than two-weapon fighting.
DMaple
03-15-07, 09:09 AM Actually, considering that ASF replaces all normal bonuses and penaties of TWF (and it explicitly says so in it's text), they won't stack at all.

You haven't read the text then because it only says it replaces the penalties not anything that helps to offset penalties for fighting with two weapons like the TWF feat.
Banatine
03-15-07, 12:10 PM That sounds very abusive of RAW.

I would agree that you can reduce the penalties by taking the tempest class and nothing more. you cannot offset the penalty of sword and shield fighting any more than you can offset the penalty of two sword fighting. Otherwise, why doesn't everyone fight with sword and shield and have no penalties?

The two-weapon fighting feat doesn't stack with itself (if you could take it twice). My argument is that, for fighting with a sword and shield, ASF supercedes TWF. Otherwise, it is just the oversized TWF feat, but it does less.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lusiphur2525 03-13-07, 12:08 AM	After seeing the AWESOME movie 300, I thought it would be cool to make a few npc chartacters for my game that fought like the Spartans. Any good ideas for feats to give them for shield bonuses? Also, does anyone know of a place to look up what a feat does? I went to the feat index, but there is no long description, just a brief one. Thanks in advance.
Stardust 03-13-07, 12:13 AM	The Player's Handbook 2 has a whole bunch of feats to maximise shield potential (Check out the 'Shield Specialization' tree). Can't post them on the boards, 'cause they're not Open Game Content, but if you have the book, or have access to a friend's book, then that's probably the way forward.
SoulReaverX 03-13-07, 12:54 AM	i believe there is more shield related feats in complete warrior as well at least 1 or 2 of them.
Johannixx 03-13-07, 02:43 AM	It depends on if you want to TWF with the shield or not. TWF with a shield is VERY feat-intensive, and the payout is pretty low compared to other specialized forms of damage-dealing. Also, if you want to do some serious Spartan-style slaughtering, I would suggest houseruling the spear so that it can be used as a one-handed martial weapon as well as a two-handed simple weapon.
Dead_Weasel 03-13-07, 03:34 AM	CW: Shield Ward, Phalanx Fighting, Shield Charge, Shield Slam HoB: Block Arrow, Shield Wall PHB2: Active Shield Defense, Agile Shield Fighter, Shield Specialization, Shield Ward RoS: Focused Shield, Shielded Axe Specifically, Phalanx Fighting and Shield Wall are very 300 Spartan-y. Shortspears are already one-handed weapons. They can be thrown, too. If you really want a bigger spear in one hand, well, that's what Monkey Grip (CW) is for.
Baron Rod 03-13-07, 03:57 AM	Google the Netbook of Feats, version 12 is out now. It has alot of feats for shield fighting. It also has one to use a spear and shield together. Baron Rod
DMaple 03-14-07, 07:19 AM	You might want Formation Expert from Complete Warrior as well, but really that and some of the other shield feats only work well if you allies are also using a shield. Leadership perhaps? If you are looking purely for defense then you could have Shield Specialization, Phalanx Fighting, Formation Expert, Shield Wall. Assuming you get between allies also using shields and have Phalanx Fighting. Then your total AC bonus from using a heavy shield would be +9 (not including any magical bonus). So there is a good case for Leadership and making sure your followers and cohort are trained in Phalanx fighting. Knights (PHB2) get a nice AC bonus to their Shield, but obviously a Fighter is handy for the bonus feats (most shield feats count as bonus fighter feats). If you aren't looking for defense just fun things to do with your shield then probably It's going to be a lot of feats Improved Shield Bash + Shield Specialization -> Agile Shield Fighter. Pretty much does what you could do with Two Weapon Fighting, but with a AC boost. The problem with any Shield based fighter is, a magical Animated Shield means most of your feats are wasted purely for style. Why have Improved Shield Bash, Shield Spec (heavy), Agile Shield Fighter just to have a shield bash and AC at -2 to hit. When a Fighter could go Two Weapon Fighting, use a light off hand weapon do the same off-hand damage and have two feats to spend as he likes, and get and animated Shield a similar shield AC bonus. You've basically used two extra feats extra, but saved a bit of cash. For that reason feats like Shield Charge and Shield Slam, that let you do stuff that isn't so easily replicated by other feats make more interesting options to me.
Banatine 03-14-07, 09:07 AM	The problem with any Shield based fighter is, a magical Animated Shield means most of your feats are wasted purely for style. Why have Improved Shield Bash, Shield Spec (heavy), Agile Shield Fighter just to have a shield bash and AC at -2 to hit. When a Fighter could go Two Weapon Fighting, use a light off hand weapon do the same off-hand damage and have two feats to spend as he likes, and get and animated Shield a similar shield AC bonus. You've basically used two extra feats extra, but saved a bit of cash. For that reason feats like Shield Charge and Shield Slam, that let you do stuff that isn't so easily replicated by other feats make more interesting options to me. He doesnt want to 'waste' feats for style, he wants to use feats for character, which seems to be a concept lost recently. EDIT: in answer to the OP's question, you can find every shield feat you will ever need in PHB2 and CW. Just because TWF with an animated sheild is better, doesnt mean its characterful. Its just munchkiny. Personally, I prefer character over power. My character is a Duskblade who uses agile sheild fighter, and I am no less effective in combat than our swordsage. I would rather use my money on making my shield better as a shield and weapon, than paying money to improve two weapons and a shield. The reason being it is more characteful.
DMaple 03-14-07, 09:26 AM	Check my other thread Agile Shield Fighter actually stacks with TWF, so you get your Shield Bash and other attack at -0/-0 penalty, in fact when you get Improved TWF, you'd get your second off hand attack at only -1 instead of -5. So you can have style (character) and still be a munchkin. :D
Goreg Skullcrusher 03-14-07, 05:11 PM	Spartan, Ftr6 Medium Humanoid (Human) Hit Dice: 6d10 + 12 (49 hp) Initiative: +2 Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares) Armor Class: 15 (+2 dex, +3 shield), touch 15, flat-footed 13 Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+10 Attack: MW Shortspear +11 melee (1d6+4/x2) Full Attack: MW Shortspear +11/+6 melee (1d6+4/x2) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Special Qualities: Saves: Fort +7, Ref +4, Will +1 Abilities: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 11 Skills: Jump +13, Climb +13 Feats: Phalanx Fighting, Shield Specialization, Shield Ward, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Formation Expert, Precise Swing, Lunging Strike Here's a Spartan build I whipped up using 28-point buy. Under optimal conditions the "internal" members of the Shield wall have 19 AC and +13 to hit. Not too shabby considering I didn't give them armor. (I normally play low-magic campaigns, so I didn't deck them out in magic gear either) He'd probably make a better NPC than a PC. Unless you have 8 friends who want to use identical builds. :P Edit: I just realized that the shortspear isn't a light weapon, and thus doesn't mesh with Phalanx Fighting so well. This is probably the designers choice for balance trumping realism. Aside from possibly the short sword I don't see any light weapons that are more appropriate in a Phalanx formation than a spear.
primemover003 03-14-07, 05:15 PM	If you really want a bigger spear in one hand, well, that's what Monkey Grip (CW) is for. Monkey Grip does not allow you to wield a two handed weapon in one hand. It allows you to use a larger weapon normally (in regard to being light, one handed, or two handed). You can't take monkey grip to wield a medium greatsword in one hand. Using a spear in one hand as a martial weapon is a perfectly reasonable house rule.
Banatine 03-15-07, 08:35 AM	Check my other thread Agile Shield Fighter actually stacks with TWF, so you get your Shield Bash and other attack at -0/-0 penalty, in fact when you get Improved TWF, you'd get your second off hand attack at only -1 instead of -5. So you can have style (character) and still be a munchkin. :D Actually, considering that ASF replaces all normal bonuses and penaties of TWF (and it explicitly says so in it's text), they won't stack at all. ASF is basically combining oversized TWF with TWD. Power like that wouldn't stack with the TWF feat. It would make sword-and-shield fighting better than two-weapon fighting.
DMaple 03-15-07, 09:09 AM	Actually, considering that ASF replaces all normal bonuses and penaties of TWF (and it explicitly says so in it's text), they won't stack at all. You haven't read the text then because it only says it replaces the penalties not anything that helps to offset penalties for fighting with two weapons like the TWF feat.
Banatine 03-15-07, 12:10 PM	That sounds very abusive of RAW. I would agree that you can reduce the penalties by taking the tempest class and nothing more. you cannot offset the penalty of sword and shield fighting any more than you can offset the penalty of two sword fighting. Otherwise, why doesn't everyone fight with sword and shield and have no penalties? The two-weapon fighting feat doesn't stack with itself (if you could take it twice). My argument is that, for fighting with a sword and shield, ASF supercedes TWF. Otherwise, it is just the oversized TWF feat, but it does less.