Feats for the Cha-based martial artist? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Feats for the Cha-based martial artist? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lotus Crane
02-17-07, 02:01 AM So I was thinking of the following homebrew feats for a Cha-based martial artist, in particular a swordsage, with perhaps some bard levels. With regards to balance considerations:

1) Carmendine Monk and Kung Fu Genius set a precedent for swapping primary ability scores (they replace Wis with Int for monk abilities).
2) Master Spellthief and Swift Hunter set a precedent for advancing two or more classes' main abilities in a very strong manner.
3) Cha is generally considered the weakest primary ability score to have, so rather than being a no-brainer upgrade like an Int substitution (see #1), I thought it was close enough to being a break-even proposition (or even a downgrade) by itself, that I gave Way of Passion some other benefits besides the Cha substitution. Yes, if you're crazy enough to multiclass monk/ninja/swordsage, Way of Passion applies to all of them, but the AC bonuses still don't stack, so it shouldn't be that abusive.

If there are some other Cha-based options for martial artists that I'm missing aside from Ascetic Mage, which is monk/sorcerer only and rather weak (especially for a hybrid feat, compared to say Master Spellthief or Swift Hunter), please let me know. In the meantime, feedback would be nice. ^_^

BARDIC SWORDSAGE [GENERAL]
You are an avid student of esoterica, whether academic, artistic, or martial.
Prerequisite: Ability to initiate 2nd-level martial maneuvers, bardic music.
Benefit: Your bard and swordsage levels stack for the purpose of determining what bardic music abilities you have access to, and how effective they are. For example, a 4th-level bard/4th-level swordsage would have access to the suggestion (DC 14 + Cha modifier) and inspire courage (+2) abilities, as if he were a 8th-level bard. (Swordsage levels do not, however, provide additional daily uses of bardic music; only bard levels do.)
Your bard and swordsage levels also stack for determining your bonus on bardic knowledge checks and your initiator level for martial maneuvers. The character described above would have bonus of 8 + his Intelligence modifier on bardic knowledge checks and an initiator level of 8th for swordsage maneuvers.

WAY OF PASSION [GENERAL]
As a disciple of the King of Hearts, your emotions provide you with power and purpose, instead of distracting you like they do other martial artists.
Prerequisite: Cha 13, must be gained at or before the first level of a martial arts class is taken.
Benefit: You can use your Charisma modifier rather than your Wisdom modifier for all martial arts special abilities that normally rely on Wisdom. You also learn a secret specific to each martial arts class, described below.
Monk: You can use your Charisma bonus instead of your Wisdom bonus for determining your monk AC bonus, for determining the save DC against your stunning fist and quivering palm attacks, and for determining the save DC and effects of other unarmed special attacks, such as those provided by the Eagle Claw Attack and Freezing the Lifeblood feats.
In addition, you can multiclass freely between the monk and other classes. You must still remain lawful to continue advancing as a monk. You still face the normal XP penalties for having multiple classes more than one level apart.
Ninja: You can use your Charisma bonus instead of your Wisdom bonus for determining your ninja AC bonus, and for determining the size of your ki pool.
In addition, you can use your ki powers normally while wearing up to light armor, though not while using a shield or while encumbered. (Wearing armor of any kind still causes you to lose your AC bonus, great leap, speed climb, and evasion abilities.)
Swordsage: You can use your Charisma bonus instead of your Wisdom bonus for determining your swordsage AC bonus, for determining the save DC of martial maneuvers which normally allow a Wisdom-based saving throw, and for determining the bonus damage provided by the insightful strikes ability.
In addition, you may choose one type of melee weapon with which you are proficient. That weapon is treated as a favored weapon of all your disciplines for determining the effects of maneuvers, feats, and other special abilities you may have.
legowarrior
02-17-07, 02:44 AM Try using the Samurai as a base, and modifying it. Unarmed Combat form instead of one that requires the Katana.
Lotus Crane
02-17-07, 03:50 AM Samurai is already Charisma rather than Wisdom-based; look at smite and staredown. And despite the (probably misappropriated) name, it's really just another generic warrior class, not a martial artist in the anime or kung fu movie sense like the monk, ninja, and swordsage tend to be.
ShinAkuma2
02-17-07, 08:14 AM I like Way of Passion because it reminds me of Guy and Rock Lee from Naruto. Doesn't get any more passionate than that.
Lotus Crane
02-17-07, 05:39 PM Anybody else?
Zoycitenega
02-17-07, 06:06 PM Feats I like:
* Improved Feint(you'd have to get Combat Expertise, though).
* Tumbling Feint(+5 to feint checks after tumbling)
* Improved Diversion(Make a bluff check and then hide).
* Force of Personality(Presumably, you have a low will save. this let's you add your Charisma).
Admittedly, I go a bit overboard with feinting.
Kevin_H
02-17-07, 09:14 PM I like all of the ideas, but it really don't make sense to me how CHA would grant you an AC bonus. The point of the WIS bonus to AC is that you have an innate understanding for the tendencies of your foes and where attacks might come from, thus granting you the extra chance to avoid them. I don't see how that translates to CHA in any way.

EDIT: Nevermind, it finally clicked for me. I now understand. Nice work.
SephDragoon
02-18-07, 01:49 AM Haha, sorcerer/master of the unseen hand. Now I get to use charisma for fighting :P. Grab a weapon, and go to town with it using telekinesis.

I have toyed with the thought of grabbing some of those feats for myself. But then I realized, Force of Personality, I already have a really high will save. Feinting? Bah, that's what invisibility is for. And I also went the way of telling blow with a high crit range for getting sneak attack if greater invisibility doesn't work.

And I would definitely take way of passion. I have been planning on having my current character go 1 or maybe 2 levels of swordsage in the future. This would be quite interesting to take and then add my charisma bonus to ac, and actually use my maneuvers...
Lotus Crane
02-19-07, 08:24 PM :bump:
Kary Wanzer
02-20-07, 11:07 PM :thumbsup: Shining finger! :P
Lotus Crane
02-21-07, 01:39 AM And I would definitely take way of passion. I have been planning on having my current character go 1 or maybe 2 levels of swordsage in the future. This would be quite interesting to take and then add my charisma bonus to ac, and actually use my maneuvers...
Just remember that your Charisma bonus replaces your Wisdom bonus; it doesn't get added on top of it. Also, not all martial maneuvers that allow saving throws base their DC on Wisdom; some use Strength or Dexterity instead, in which case Way of Passion doesn't apply to them.

:thumbsup: Shining finger! :P
Yes it's true, that's one of the things I was thinking of when I was writing these.

I like Way of Passion because it reminds me of Guy and Rock Lee from Naruto. Doesn't get any more passionate than that.
Hmm, wasn't really thinking about that, because I'm afraid I don't watch Narutard. ^_~
Wayside
02-21-07, 01:53 AM Kiai Shout and Greater Kiai Shout.
SephDragoon
02-21-07, 08:21 AM Just remember that your Charisma bonus replaces your Wisdom bonus; it doesn't get added on top of it. Also, not all martial maneuvers that allow saving throws base their DC on Wisdom; some use Strength or Dexterity instead, in which case Way of Passion doesn't apply to them.

I am aware... but that is still a jump of 6 points... That's alot better than weapon focus :P. Damn skippy!

Seriously, I have like a 13 in wisdom, but a 25 in charisma. Which do you think I am going to be using? :P

But this is a long way off, because I just got complete scoundrel and found Master Spelltheif. Hehe, suprise suprise, I only took spelltheif to get that 1d6 sneak attack to qualify for daggerspell mage, and not lose my arcane caster theme. Now I find out I could be stealing up to 6th level spells with one feat. Seems my character is returning to its roots soon :P.
Lotus Crane
02-23-07, 01:38 PM Still could use some feedback...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lotus Crane 02-17-07, 02:01 AM	So I was thinking of the following homebrew feats for a Cha-based martial artist, in particular a swordsage, with perhaps some bard levels. With regards to balance considerations: 1) Carmendine Monk and Kung Fu Genius set a precedent for swapping primary ability scores (they replace Wis with Int for monk abilities). 2) Master Spellthief and Swift Hunter set a precedent for advancing two or more classes' main abilities in a very strong manner. 3) Cha is generally considered the weakest primary ability score to have, so rather than being a no-brainer upgrade like an Int substitution (see #1), I thought it was close enough to being a break-even proposition (or even a downgrade) by itself, that I gave Way of Passion some other benefits besides the Cha substitution. Yes, if you're crazy enough to multiclass monk/ninja/swordsage, Way of Passion applies to all of them, but the AC bonuses still don't stack, so it shouldn't be that abusive. If there are some other Cha-based options for martial artists that I'm missing aside from Ascetic Mage, which is monk/sorcerer only and rather weak (especially for a hybrid feat, compared to say Master Spellthief or Swift Hunter), please let me know. In the meantime, feedback would be nice. ^_^ BARDIC SWORDSAGE [GENERAL] You are an avid student of esoterica, whether academic, artistic, or martial. Prerequisite: Ability to initiate 2nd-level martial maneuvers, bardic music. Benefit: Your bard and swordsage levels stack for the purpose of determining what bardic music abilities you have access to, and how effective they are. For example, a 4th-level bard/4th-level swordsage would have access to the suggestion (DC 14 + Cha modifier) and inspire courage (+2) abilities, as if he were a 8th-level bard. (Swordsage levels do not, however, provide additional daily uses of bardic music; only bard levels do.) Your bard and swordsage levels also stack for determining your bonus on bardic knowledge checks and your initiator level for martial maneuvers. The character described above would have bonus of 8 + his Intelligence modifier on bardic knowledge checks and an initiator level of 8th for swordsage maneuvers. WAY OF PASSION [GENERAL] As a disciple of the King of Hearts, your emotions provide you with power and purpose, instead of distracting you like they do other martial artists. Prerequisite: Cha 13, must be gained at or before the first level of a martial arts class is taken. Benefit: You can use your Charisma modifier rather than your Wisdom modifier for all martial arts special abilities that normally rely on Wisdom. You also learn a secret specific to each martial arts class, described below. Monk: You can use your Charisma bonus instead of your Wisdom bonus for determining your monk AC bonus, for determining the save DC against your stunning fist and quivering palm attacks, and for determining the save DC and effects of other unarmed special attacks, such as those provided by the Eagle Claw Attack and Freezing the Lifeblood feats. In addition, you can multiclass freely between the monk and other classes. You must still remain lawful to continue advancing as a monk. You still face the normal XP penalties for having multiple classes more than one level apart. Ninja: You can use your Charisma bonus instead of your Wisdom bonus for determining your ninja AC bonus, and for determining the size of your ki pool. In addition, you can use your ki powers normally while wearing up to light armor, though not while using a shield or while encumbered. (Wearing armor of any kind still causes you to lose your AC bonus, great leap, speed climb, and evasion abilities.) Swordsage: You can use your Charisma bonus instead of your Wisdom bonus for determining your swordsage AC bonus, for determining the save DC of martial maneuvers which normally allow a Wisdom-based saving throw, and for determining the bonus damage provided by the insightful strikes ability. In addition, you may choose one type of melee weapon with which you are proficient. That weapon is treated as a favored weapon of all your disciplines for determining the effects of maneuvers, feats, and other special abilities you may have.
legowarrior 02-17-07, 02:44 AM	Try using the Samurai as a base, and modifying it. Unarmed Combat form instead of one that requires the Katana.
Lotus Crane 02-17-07, 03:50 AM	Samurai is already Charisma rather than Wisdom-based; look at smite and staredown. And despite the (probably misappropriated) name, it's really just another generic warrior class, not a martial artist in the anime or kung fu movie sense like the monk, ninja, and swordsage tend to be.
ShinAkuma2 02-17-07, 08:14 AM	I like Way of Passion because it reminds me of Guy and Rock Lee from Naruto. Doesn't get any more passionate than that.
Lotus Crane 02-17-07, 05:39 PM	Anybody else?
Zoycitenega 02-17-07, 06:06 PM	Feats I like: * Improved Feint(you'd have to get Combat Expertise, though). * Tumbling Feint(+5 to feint checks after tumbling) * Improved Diversion(Make a bluff check and then hide). * Force of Personality(Presumably, you have a low will save. this let's you add your Charisma). Admittedly, I go a bit overboard with feinting.
Kevin_H 02-17-07, 09:14 PM	I like all of the ideas, but it really don't make sense to me how CHA would grant you an AC bonus. The point of the WIS bonus to AC is that you have an innate understanding for the tendencies of your foes and where attacks might come from, thus granting you the extra chance to avoid them. I don't see how that translates to CHA in any way. EDIT: Nevermind, it finally clicked for me. I now understand. Nice work.
SephDragoon 02-18-07, 01:49 AM	Haha, sorcerer/master of the unseen hand. Now I get to use charisma for fighting :P. Grab a weapon, and go to town with it using telekinesis. I have toyed with the thought of grabbing some of those feats for myself. But then I realized, Force of Personality, I already have a really high will save. Feinting? Bah, that's what invisibility is for. And I also went the way of telling blow with a high crit range for getting sneak attack if greater invisibility doesn't work. And I would definitely take way of passion. I have been planning on having my current character go 1 or maybe 2 levels of swordsage in the future. This would be quite interesting to take and then add my charisma bonus to ac, and actually use my maneuvers...
Lotus Crane 02-19-07, 08:24 PM	:bump:
Kary Wanzer 02-20-07, 11:07 PM	:thumbsup: Shining finger! :P
Lotus Crane 02-21-07, 01:39 AM	And I would definitely take way of passion. I have been planning on having my current character go 1 or maybe 2 levels of swordsage in the future. This would be quite interesting to take and then add my charisma bonus to ac, and actually use my maneuvers... Just remember that your Charisma bonus replaces your Wisdom bonus; it doesn't get added on top of it. Also, not all martial maneuvers that allow saving throws base their DC on Wisdom; some use Strength or Dexterity instead, in which case Way of Passion doesn't apply to them. :thumbsup: Shining finger! :P Yes it's true, that's one of the things I was thinking of when I was writing these. I like Way of Passion because it reminds me of Guy and Rock Lee from Naruto. Doesn't get any more passionate than that. Hmm, wasn't really thinking about that, because I'm afraid I don't watch Narutard. ^_~
Wayside 02-21-07, 01:53 AM	Kiai Shout and Greater Kiai Shout.
SephDragoon 02-21-07, 08:21 AM	Just remember that your Charisma bonus replaces your Wisdom bonus; it doesn't get added on top of it. Also, not all martial maneuvers that allow saving throws base their DC on Wisdom; some use Strength or Dexterity instead, in which case Way of Passion doesn't apply to them. I am aware... but that is still a jump of 6 points... That's alot better than weapon focus :P. Damn skippy! Seriously, I have like a 13 in wisdom, but a 25 in charisma. Which do you think I am going to be using? :P But this is a long way off, because I just got complete scoundrel and found Master Spelltheif. Hehe, suprise suprise, I only took spelltheif to get that 1d6 sneak attack to qualify for daggerspell mage, and not lose my arcane caster theme. Now I find out I could be stealing up to 6th level spells with one feat. Seems my character is returning to its roots soon :P.
Lotus Crane 02-23-07, 01:38 PM	Still could use some feedback...