feats (or other suggestions) for magic defense [Archive] - Wizards Community

feats (or other suggestions) for magic defense [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
macduffman
09-25-07, 11:05 AM Hey guys, I'm dealing with a classic conundrum here: I'm playing a barbarian who is having a really hard time fighting against magic and will saves in general. Also, flying enemies tend to cause trouble, although I think I'm getting that one under wraps soon.

My party is full of magic-users who would rather cast useless spells (mostly useless in their cases: a poorly-played cleric and a guy who can't decide if he's a wizard or a fighter, so he sucks at both) than enhance or protect their one major damage dealer, so I'm out of luck there. Did you detect any bitterness there? :)

Any tips for some good feats, magic items, or strategies? I'm looking for something more insightful than "uh, yeah, take Iron Will."

Thanks, everybody!
tarkin
09-25-07, 11:29 AM Suggestion 1: Consider buying a Magic Circle/Protection against Evil effect from a magic item.

Horn of Goodness works 1/day to get the effect. Similarly, if you are willing to spend 2 skill points to get one rank in Performance, there are magical bard instruments that also grant a Magic Circle agaisnt evil 1/day.

You can also get potions of Protection From evil.

All of these grant you both a bonus to your save AND immunity from direct control.

Suggestion 2: Take a level or two in a class fighter type class with some magical abilities. They have good Will saves. One level is +2 to your will. This works really well if you are Human or have Barbarian as your favored class. Hexblade and Marshall are two good choices. If you take one level of each that is +4 to your Will save, without lowering your BAB.
Averroes
09-25-07, 03:00 PM Iron Will

That's about all I'd do. Too much more and you risk gimping yourself.
FrostWolf
09-25-07, 03:08 PM Multi class into Cleric. Get your hands on the Strength domain for offence and the protection domain for the defence. Heal, protect, and buff youself and look good doing it in a shiny Mithril Breastplate.
Averroes
09-25-07, 03:41 PM Multi class into Cleric. Get your hands on the Strength domain for offence and the protection domain for the defence. Heal, protect, and buff youself and look good doing it in a shiny Mithril Breastplate.

That doesn't really work if you want to rage though. You can cast outside of your rage.
But I'm guessing since he is talking about his bad will save he probably won't be able to be much of a cleric. This is assuming he has at least an 11 wis.
FrostWolf
09-26-07, 09:07 AM Then Sor/Wiz into Rage Mage, and if his party still can't pull it together, Frenzied Bezerker.
roggwil
09-30-07, 07:38 PM Mage Slayer feat - prerequisites spellcraft 2 and BA+3 gives +1 to will saves and casters you threaten can't cast defensively.
Hope this helps :)
Leress
09-30-07, 07:56 PM What books are allowed and what level is your character?
tyrecian
09-30-07, 08:00 PM If you have access to the Spell Compendium, make use of Greater Resistance, a 4th level Cleric spell i think, that gives +4 to all saves. It lasts for a while.

Divine protection is a 2nd level spell (cleric, also in compendium) that gives +1 to saves (and a +1 to AC, with Bless its a great combo) also lasts a nice while, and its not resistance, but morale, so it stacks with resistance. If you must get these on items that alow you to cast once a day or some such.

The prot. from evil is a great idea, as it can stop many charms and such dead in tracks (suppresses them for the duration of the circle, but much easier dealt with :))

A more subtle solution is to buy a hat of diguise, so that you can look like a caster, or a cleric. If the enemy is confused about who is who, they might waste a charm or dominate on another PC in the party. Invisibility is also a nice one for this.

If you are having trouble with your PC party, and it sounds like you are, there are going to be troubles later that end in a Total Party Kill. So i suggest maybe getting the with cleric during off game time and easing him into some new strategies, such as Shield Other, and Owl's Wisdom on you for help in the Will save area. If you can't convince him to be nice, simply purchase him some pearls of power and give him a % of treasure that is your share to have the spells you want to be buffed with memm'ed todos los dias :D That way you benefit from him, and he doesnt feel like you are totally using him for a buff/heal-bot.

The wizard is going to have trouble going fighter, so if you want buffs from him, you might just be barking up the wrong tree, as he is going to end up being too busy buffing himself. However, you can always buy wands with buffs in them and simply have the wizzy buff you with those b4 the combat, or even during after he has done his initial bursts. Maybe buy a few wands with buffs in them, such as Cat's Grace, Invisibility, Bull's Strength, etc. even Prot. from Evil. If your GM sees that this PC party is a problem, then suggest the ability to buy wands with only 10 charges at 1/5 the price of a wand with 50 charges, that allows you to have cheap low end enchantments that can be put on you by another, and you wont be spending all your excess loot :)

If its a matter of making and keeping gameplay fun for everyone, perhaps the GM will help you out. It can be frustrating and really awful to play with noob players, sometimes its helpful if you feel the levels of play are too vastly different to subtly point out certain things but that can also create anger, so make sure that you leave the PCs an 'out' for when you critique.

In the end, if you are able, it might be a good idea to think about the Leadership feat for a buff/heal bot cleric that has a bunch of dispels and remove fears :) Lead through example :) Players that see a PC class played extremely well will often be jarred out of playing terribly by realizing some of the latent power that they might have never realized before, it might make your PC less effective from what you invisionned, but that is better than having a completely optimized PC in a party that is subpar and ends in death because you were too true to an ideal. In dnd as in life, it is often good to bend like bamboo and take one for the team, to make the party stronger.
macduffman
10-02-07, 10:46 AM What books are allowed and what level is your character?

My DM would at least give some consideration to just about any book, I think. My barbarian is at level 11 (just about ripe for a new feat).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
macduffman 09-25-07, 11:05 AM	Hey guys, I'm dealing with a classic conundrum here: I'm playing a barbarian who is having a really hard time fighting against magic and will saves in general. Also, flying enemies tend to cause trouble, although I think I'm getting that one under wraps soon. My party is full of magic-users who would rather cast useless spells (mostly useless in their cases: a poorly-played cleric and a guy who can't decide if he's a wizard or a fighter, so he sucks at both) than enhance or protect their one major damage dealer, so I'm out of luck there. Did you detect any bitterness there? :) Any tips for some good feats, magic items, or strategies? I'm looking for something more insightful than "uh, yeah, take Iron Will." Thanks, everybody!
tarkin 09-25-07, 11:29 AM	Suggestion 1: Consider buying a Magic Circle/Protection against Evil effect from a magic item. Horn of Goodness works 1/day to get the effect. Similarly, if you are willing to spend 2 skill points to get one rank in Performance, there are magical bard instruments that also grant a Magic Circle agaisnt evil 1/day. You can also get potions of Protection From evil. All of these grant you both a bonus to your save AND immunity from direct control. Suggestion 2: Take a level or two in a class fighter type class with some magical abilities. They have good Will saves. One level is +2 to your will. This works really well if you are Human or have Barbarian as your favored class. Hexblade and Marshall are two good choices. If you take one level of each that is +4 to your Will save, without lowering your BAB.
Averroes 09-25-07, 03:00 PM	Iron Will That's about all I'd do. Too much more and you risk gimping yourself.
FrostWolf 09-25-07, 03:08 PM	Multi class into Cleric. Get your hands on the Strength domain for offence and the protection domain for the defence. Heal, protect, and buff youself and look good doing it in a shiny Mithril Breastplate.
Averroes 09-25-07, 03:41 PM	Multi class into Cleric. Get your hands on the Strength domain for offence and the protection domain for the defence. Heal, protect, and buff youself and look good doing it in a shiny Mithril Breastplate. That doesn't really work if you want to rage though. You can cast outside of your rage. But I'm guessing since he is talking about his bad will save he probably won't be able to be much of a cleric. This is assuming he has at least an 11 wis.
FrostWolf 09-26-07, 09:07 AM	Then Sor/Wiz into Rage Mage, and if his party still can't pull it together, Frenzied Bezerker.
roggwil 09-30-07, 07:38 PM	Mage Slayer feat - prerequisites spellcraft 2 and BA+3 gives +1 to will saves and casters you threaten can't cast defensively. Hope this helps :)
Leress 09-30-07, 07:56 PM	What books are allowed and what level is your character?
tyrecian 09-30-07, 08:00 PM	If you have access to the Spell Compendium, make use of Greater Resistance, a 4th level Cleric spell i think, that gives +4 to all saves. It lasts for a while. Divine protection is a 2nd level spell (cleric, also in compendium) that gives +1 to saves (and a +1 to AC, with Bless its a great combo) also lasts a nice while, and its not resistance, but morale, so it stacks with resistance. If you must get these on items that alow you to cast once a day or some such. The prot. from evil is a great idea, as it can stop many charms and such dead in tracks (suppresses them for the duration of the circle, but much easier dealt with :)) A more subtle solution is to buy a hat of diguise, so that you can look like a caster, or a cleric. If the enemy is confused about who is who, they might waste a charm or dominate on another PC in the party. Invisibility is also a nice one for this. If you are having trouble with your PC party, and it sounds like you are, there are going to be troubles later that end in a Total Party Kill. So i suggest maybe getting the with cleric during off game time and easing him into some new strategies, such as Shield Other, and Owl's Wisdom on you for help in the Will save area. If you can't convince him to be nice, simply purchase him some pearls of power and give him a % of treasure that is your share to have the spells you want to be buffed with memm'ed todos los dias :D That way you benefit from him, and he doesnt feel like you are totally using him for a buff/heal-bot. The wizard is going to have trouble going fighter, so if you want buffs from him, you might just be barking up the wrong tree, as he is going to end up being too busy buffing himself. However, you can always buy wands with buffs in them and simply have the wizzy buff you with those b4 the combat, or even during after he has done his initial bursts. Maybe buy a few wands with buffs in them, such as Cat's Grace, Invisibility, Bull's Strength, etc. even Prot. from Evil. If your GM sees that this PC party is a problem, then suggest the ability to buy wands with only 10 charges at 1/5 the price of a wand with 50 charges, that allows you to have cheap low end enchantments that can be put on you by another, and you wont be spending all your excess loot :) If its a matter of making and keeping gameplay fun for everyone, perhaps the GM will help you out. It can be frustrating and really awful to play with noob players, sometimes its helpful if you feel the levels of play are too vastly different to subtly point out certain things but that can also create anger, so make sure that you leave the PCs an 'out' for when you critique. In the end, if you are able, it might be a good idea to think about the Leadership feat for a buff/heal bot cleric that has a bunch of dispels and remove fears :) Lead through example :) Players that see a PC class played extremely well will often be jarred out of playing terribly by realizing some of the latent power that they might have never realized before, it might make your PC less effective from what you invisionned, but that is better than having a completely optimized PC in a party that is subpar and ends in death because you were too true to an ideal. In dnd as in life, it is often good to bend like bamboo and take one for the team, to make the party stronger.
macduffman 10-02-07, 10:46 AM	What books are allowed and what level is your character? My DM would at least give some consideration to just about any book, I think. My barbarian is at level 11 (just about ripe for a new feat).