Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Magocrat 03-15-07, 06:15 PM	Fighter Feats I've decided to remove this from the boards, because no one's looking and I might use it.
jaelis 03-15-07, 09:51 PM	Well gee. Does it really help the fighter to create weak fighter-only feats that he can take in place of regular feats? Am I missing something? Brutal Attack - Like Power Attack, but worse since it's limited by strength Defensive Stance - Like Combat Expertise, but worse since it's limited by Dex. At least it lets you avoid the Int 13 prereq, that's something. But I would worry about breaking Improved Trip that way. Mighty Attack - I'm not sure, but I don't think giving up an attack is worth +2 to hit and damage, in most cases. I guess when you're fighting an opponent you can barely hit, but I think cases like that are already a lost cause... a few more bonuses probably won't help that much. Parry/Great Parry - I know some people like parry rules, but I think they just make fighting that much more complicated. I wouldn't say these feats are too weak, though. Rapid Attack - Actually, this one is pretty strong. Another nail in the coffin for the TWF fighter, though. Reckless Attack - This is probably my favorite. Limiting it by Dex is a good idea. I would probably not double it for 2H weapons though, and I would let it apply to light weapons. 2HF'ers already have a lot going for them, and letting it work for light weapons would be pretty nice for TWFers and other light-fighter types. Resisting Stance - OK, but it doesn't make much sense to me. By fighting more cautiously, I can better resist poison?
Magocrat 03-16-07, 09:26 AM	Good to see that you're a critic with a reason behind his criticism. I'll be glad to reply to your comment. Brutal Attack is indeed a different approach to Power Attack. However, this feat is meant for those who optimize their Strength score beyond 21. For those who do, Power Attack won't cut it, because it doesn't allow them to use their Strength bonus to its fullest. At 20th level, it's easy to have a Strength score that's 11 points higher than you started with. That in and of its own grants you a +5 bonus. So, for those who have such high Strength scores, Brutal Attack is a better choice because it increases in power longer than Power Attack does, as long as you keep your Strength score optimized. Defensive Stance has the same reasoning as Brutal Attack, except that this feat approaches the shtick of Combat Expertise in an alternative way. Remember that Mighty Attack grants a bonus to each attack in a full attack action. Therefore, this feat also requires cleverness to be used to its fullest potential, as well as a relatively high level. For example, if you forgo two attacks in a five-attack full attack, you gain a +4 bonus on attack and damage rolls on each attack that you make in that round. Effectively, you've gained a +12 bonus on attack and damage, except that they are evenly spread among your attacks. I can respect your opinion on Parry and Great Parry, so I guess I'll have to wait until someone else comes along who would like to comment on that. You've got an interesting point on Rapid Attack with regards to the two-weapon fighter. However, looking at it, a two-weapon fighter can gain as much from that feat as a two-handed weapon fighter or a sword and shield fighter. What would you think of it if I allowed two-weapon fighters to make an additional attack with their off-hand weapon if they took a -3 penalty instead of a -2 penalty? I'm glad that you like Reckless Attack. I think that editing those two features you mentioned would be a fair trade-off, and they would definitely help to differentiate that feat from Brutal Attack and Power Attack. Consider it done. The idea behind Resisting Stance is that a trained fighter (whose training is represented by that feat) can steel his mind or his body against supernatural and magical attacks just as well as he can defend himself from attacks with weapons. Although your point with poisons looks odd at first, indeed. Finally, thank you for taking the time to read through my feats.
jaelis 03-16-07, 09:42 AM	Brutal Attack is indeed a different approach to Power Attack. However, this feat is meant for those who optimize their Strength score beyond 21. For those who do, Power Attack won't cut it, because it doesn't allow them to use their Strength bonus to its fullest. At 20th level, it's easy to have a Strength score that's 11 points higher than you started with. That in and of its own grants you a +5 bonus. So, for those who have such high Strength scores, Brutal Attack is a better choice because it increases in power longer than Power Attack does, as long as you keep your Strength score optimized. You know, regular power attack is limited only by your BAB. So at level 20, you can take a -20 penalty. Combat Expertise does have a limit, but I haven't seen that be a problem so often for a fighter. (And I haven't seen so many melee fighters with 20+ dex early in their careers.) But I do understand the point better now. So Mighty Attack works with TWFing (otherwise how are you getting a five-attack sequence)? I could see how that might start to be viable, though it's a lot of feat investment. And how does it work with wielding... do I need to actually hold an off-hand weapon to give up my off-hand attacks? You've got an interesting point on Rapid Attack with regards to the two-weapon fighter. However, looking at it, a two-weapon fighter can gain as much from that feat as a two-handed weapon fighter or a sword and shield fighter. What would you think of it if I allowed two-weapon fighters to make an additional attack with their off-hand weapon if they took a -3 penalty instead of a -2 penalty? The TWFer is already struggling with the basic -2 penalty... bumping it up to -5 for even two extra attacks sounds a little sketchy, but maybe. You'd have to play test it a bit.
Magocrat 03-16-07, 10:23 AM	D'oh! I thought that Power Attack was limited to a -5 penalty. I guess that makes Brutal Attack, erm, rather useless. I'll edit that. And with regards to seeing few characters with a Dexterity score of 20 or higher, that's what I meant with the increase in power as you level up. Although it's always good that you understand it better now. And another d'oh for Mighty Attack, I wasn't having my head straight then. I should indeed think of how that feat would interact with two-weapon fighters. Good point. I think that it's worth repeating that these feats were designed to improve the fighter's combat effectiveness on the long run, as he continues to gain levels. Not only to make it more interesting to keep taking fighter levels, but also to give them a relative power boost.
tarkin 03-16-07, 04:12 PM	I generally think fighters are balanced. If you think Tome of Battle offers things that are better, then you should be talking about downgrading the Tome of Battle, not upgrading the Fighter. However, most of the feats you offered are pretty good anyway, and worthwhile. A few I think are vunerable to abuse, Defensive Stance [Fighter] Upgrade of Combat Expertise, removing the level 5 limit. Good feat, reasonable power level, even the "you may use this feat to satisfy pre-reqs Great Parry [Fighter] Like your Parry feat, this is a clear EPIC feat. Mighty Attack [Fighter] Good feat, if and only if the attacks you give up must be your best attacks. Allowing them to give up their low end attacks which won't hit anyway to get a bonus to damage and to hit for the regular attacks would be an Epic level feat. Especailly as the only thing stopping people from Power Attacking is the effect on the lower attacks. With this, they could drop the lower attacks, then Power Attack at will, still getting the bonuses to hit. Parry [Fighter] This is at best a high end feat, probably an Epic feat. It lets a low level fighter pretty much defeat a Rogue type with no problem. Every fighter in the world would take it. Rapid Attack [Fighter]Already exists, see Rapid Strike, with more pre-reqs. Making it Fighter only might be OK as a replacement pre-req Reckless Attack [Fighter] I like this feat. Well thought out. Again, the can be used in place of Power Attack is fair. Note you used a different name (Brutal Attack) in the Special section Resisting Stance [Fighter]Again, a very good feat. Well thought out and fair.
Magocrat 03-16-07, 05:13 PM	Good to see that there are more people who are critical of my feats. Thanks, that really helps me find the flaws. The Mighty Attack feat has been edited to represent your suggestion. Your reasoning on the feat's mechanics are sound, and you definitely have a point. The Parry feat has been edited to become less powerful. Now, you must be aware of an attack in order to parry it. That should really fix that feat. Brutal Attack used to be a feat like Power Attack, until I realized (with the help of jaelis) that I had overseen something in the description of Power Attack which made that feat absolutely obsolete. I forgot to remove the reference to that feat when I removed it. Also, I'm glad to read that you like the other feats. It's also worth saying that I've added the Dual-Weapon Fighting feat, just for two-weapon fighters.
Magocrat 03-17-07, 10:25 AM	I've added the Defensive Archery, Evasive Stance, and Improved Parry feats, and I'd like to see what you think of it. Criticism, as always, is welcomed, to remove the flaws in those feats. Of course, commenting on the other feats is okay just as well.
Magocrat 07-17-07, 05:05 PM	Erm, I'd like to bump this thread again. I'd just like to see some criticism to see whether these feats are good.
Magocrat 07-19-07, 02:02 PM	Here are two feats that I thought up today, and both are defensive. I'm trying to think of additional feats that are offensive. And yes, I know that fighters don't get Tumble as a class skill, but look at the Lightly Armored alternative class feature.