Fighting Defensively/Combat Expertise...? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Fighting Defensively/Combat Expertise...? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sargeras
07-18-07, 10:08 PM Does using combat expertise count as fighting defensively? Or do you have to do both?

In such a case as the Duelist's Elaborate Parry, would you get the bonus from it if they used Combat Expertise instead of fighting defensively? Or would a DM need to houserule it for this to work?

Thanks in advance for any input!
Jungingen
07-18-07, 10:56 PM From the SRD, Combat Expertise reads

When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as -5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action.

Fighting Defensively reads

You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a -4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the same round.

<snip>

You can choose to fight defensively when taking a full attack action. If you do so, you take a -4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the same round.

Dodge bonuses stack with each other, so if you want to, you can Fight Defensively on a Standard Attack or Full Round Attack and use Combat Expertise as well, stacking your dodge bonuses to the sky. The Duelist AC bonus is also a dodge bonus, so yes, it stacks with everything as well.

You do not have to use Fight Defensively with Combat Expertise, or vise versa. Obviously if you have Combat Expertise you'll want to use it before Fight Defensively, but if that's not enough you have the option of using both.

+5 from Combat Expertise, +10 Duelist, + 2 Fighting Defensively would put you at +17 Dodge to AC and -9 to Attack Rolls.
StevenO
07-18-07, 11:41 PM Combat Expertise does NOT count as Fighting Defensively. Special note, some of the newer material that works when fighting defensively also works with CE when taking a -2 penalty or greater.

If you are wondering, Combat Expertise does stack with Fighting Defensively.
Nom
07-18-07, 11:47 PM Does using combat expertise count as fighting defensively? Or do you have to do both?You can do either or both. The fighting defensively rules explicitly note that it stacks with CE. They are not in any way the same thing (mechanically), although they are related.
In such a case as the Duelist's Elaborate Parry, would you get the bonus from it if they used Combat Expertise instead of fighting defensively?RAW, no. FD is not CE, and CE is not FD.
Sargeras
07-19-07, 06:36 AM Darn.

I knew dodge bonuses stacked, but I was wondering if a 7th lvl Duelist could take a -1 on attack rolls (using Combat Expertise) and get a +8 dodge bonus to AC. 'Cause that would be cool.

Oh, well. Thanks everyone!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sargeras 07-18-07, 10:08 PM	Does using combat expertise count as fighting defensively? Or do you have to do both? In such a case as the Duelist's Elaborate Parry, would you get the bonus from it if they used Combat Expertise instead of fighting defensively? Or would a DM need to houserule it for this to work? Thanks in advance for any input!
Jungingen 07-18-07, 10:56 PM	From the SRD, Combat Expertise reads When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as -5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action. Fighting Defensively reads You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a -4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the same round. <snip> You can choose to fight defensively when taking a full attack action. If you do so, you take a -4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC for the same round. Dodge bonuses stack with each other, so if you want to, you can Fight Defensively on a Standard Attack or Full Round Attack and use Combat Expertise as well, stacking your dodge bonuses to the sky. The Duelist AC bonus is also a dodge bonus, so yes, it stacks with everything as well. You do not have to use Fight Defensively with Combat Expertise, or vise versa. Obviously if you have Combat Expertise you'll want to use it before Fight Defensively, but if that's not enough you have the option of using both. +5 from Combat Expertise, +10 Duelist, + 2 Fighting Defensively would put you at +17 Dodge to AC and -9 to Attack Rolls.
StevenO 07-18-07, 11:41 PM	Combat Expertise does NOT count as Fighting Defensively. Special note, some of the newer material that works when fighting defensively also works with CE when taking a -2 penalty or greater. If you are wondering, Combat Expertise does stack with Fighting Defensively.
Nom 07-18-07, 11:47 PM	Does using combat expertise count as fighting defensively? Or do you have to do both?You can do either or both. The fighting defensively rules explicitly note that it stacks with CE. They are not in any way the same thing (mechanically), although they are related. In such a case as the Duelist's Elaborate Parry, would you get the bonus from it if they used Combat Expertise instead of fighting defensively?RAW, no. FD is not CE, and CE is not FD.
Sargeras 07-19-07, 06:36 AM	Darn. I knew dodge bonuses stacked, but I was wondering if a 7th lvl Duelist could take a -1 on attack rolls (using Combat Expertise) and get a +8 dodge bonus to AC. 'Cause that would be cool. Oh, well. Thanks everyone!