Gathering Crafting Materials [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gathering Crafting Materials [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
solandras
04-21-08, 03:55 PM I was wondering how you guys would rule gathering materials to craft with. Other than of course buying them for 1/3 the price of the item in question. For instance, if you are far from civilization, out in a huge forest and you want to make a bow. I'd think you'd have all the materials at hand, but still the quality of the wood, the size of it, etc. all would have to be taken into consideration by the grafter. As such I think even if that situation it'd take some kind of skill check to show that the crafter gathers useful materials. For now until I get a better idea I've just been saying that after 8hrs of searching make a Craft (X) check (X being whatever you're crafting). Divide that by 2 and that's the amount of useful raw materials that you gather in that time. Any thoughts on how to make it better, more balanced, or if anyone knows any official rulings?
Captain_Kobold
04-21-08, 04:50 PM Just use the usual Profession skill rules to determine how much moneys-worth the character can make each day. When they have made enough to be equal to the value of the raw materials required, then thewy have gathered enough for the crafter to use.

Quite often, the gathering profession will not be the same as the Craft skill. I'd allow a character with the appropriate craft skill to make the check untrained however, even though they usually cannot be.
solandras
04-22-08, 02:23 PM Just checking over the profession rules would basically do what I said except make it a week as the time interval instead of a day. That will lead to insane times for a bit more expensive stuff, like say armor. For example, let's say you're fairly good at what you do, getting a +10. You take 10 on the check, netting you a 20, and thus 10g worth per week. The cost of a chain shirt is 100, and thus the amount of raw materials you'd need is 33.3g. So it'd take you a little bit over 3 weeks to find the materials you'd need. This gets more insane when you take into account masterworked items, or just expensive stuff like heavy armor. I suppose while that might not be the most inaccurate, I don't know any player who'd want to spend that kind of time unless absolutely neccessary.
Captain_Kobold
04-23-08, 04:38 AM If, as you said, they are far from civilisation, then I think 4 weeks is a very generous estimate for characters to get the raw materials for a chain shirt together.
You're talking about prospecting a large area to find iron-bearing rocks, digging out a mine, kludging together a forge to smelt out the iron, upgrading the forge to be able to create steel, making the tools necessary to work that steel, and drawing out the steel into the wire that will be used to create the links.
Simultaneously, you would have to hunt down a large animal, skin it, and then tan and treat its hide to make the leather components of the armour.

Even for a non-composite bow, you aren't just talking about walking up to any old tree and hacking off a branch. You're looking at wandering around the forest to find the right sort of tree, then felling it, splitting it, and removing the section by the heartwood that you will be crafting the bowstave out of. Not to mention hunting down and treating the guts of some small, furry critter for the bowstring.

This is why most players prefer to buy their raw materials ready-prepared.

With regards to masterwork, you're spending the additional time finding higher-quality materials refining them, and making extra, so that you can discard any that appear to have any form of flaw.
solandras
04-23-08, 06:04 AM First, as a minor note I was thinking of using that rule for gathering materials regardless of where you are. For instance, if you're scrounging around in a metropolis. Through random digging around, going through garbage, begging, etc. you'd get about the same thing.

If, as you said, they are far from civilisation, then I think 4 weeks is a very generous estimate for characters to get the raw materials for a chain shirt together.
You're talking about prospecting a large area to find iron-bearing rocks, digging out a mine, kludging together a forge to smelt out the iron, upgrading the forge to be able to create steel, making the tools necessary to work that steel, and drawing out the steel into the wire that will be used to create the links.

Actually I'm more or less talking about just getting the raw metal. So no forge, tools, etc. The actual crafting would require that stuff of course, but just obtaining it wouldn't.

Simultaneously, you would have to hunt down a large animal, skin it, and then tan and treat its hide to make the leather components of the armour.

Again I was talking raw material, meaning just the untreated hide. The actual treating is part of the crafting process to make armor (or at least that's how I see it). And for a DnD character you'd think that would take weeks? Or even a single week?

Even for a non-composite bow, you aren't just talking about walking up to any old tree and hacking off a branch. You're looking at wandering around the forest to find the right sort of tree, then felling it, splitting it, and removing the section by the heartwood that you will be crafting the bowstave out of. Not to mention hunting down and treating the guts of some small, furry critter for the bowstring.

True, this is why I'd think if you know what you're doing (meaning having a pretty good bonus) it'd take a few days. Because anyone with a large enough axe can take down a tree and say that they have wood for a bow in less than a hour, it really isn't going to work to make that bow you need.

Just so you know, the entire reason I'm asking is because I'm running a Midnight campaign (if you've ever heard of it). If you haven't heard of it, think of it this way. Lord of the Rings, except Sauron won, now the PC's begin play 100yrs later. The PC's have very little chance of finding people to barter with to obtain steel and other materials that are neccessary for them to make their own things. Buying weapons/armor is right out of the question.
Wheldrake
04-23-08, 06:43 AM It's going to depend mostly on the nature of the raw materials.

If it's leather goods (armor, etc) then it involves hunting the animals, skinning them and curing the hides - not necessarily a great deal of time.

If it's bowyery or fletching, then there are several raw materials needed: wood, bone, sinew, steel arrowheads, feathers, etc. For the wood, check to be sure the right sort of wood is going to be growing in your forest depending on climate and altitude.

If the goods are metal in nature, then it's going to take a long time to prepare the materials, even assuming PCs have access to an abaondoned mine.

Ad hoc.

Improvise, --- Wheldrake
Kerelis
04-23-08, 08:35 AM I'm playing a character with Craft (Alchemy). The DM has ruled that I can make survival or knowledge (nature) checks as we travel to find materials for use. He said he is treating it as bonus gp value usable only for use with Craft (Alchemy). The higher the check the more I get, basically.
solandras
04-24-08, 12:08 AM I'm playing a character with Craft (Alchemy). The DM has ruled that I can make survival or knowledge (nature) checks as we travel to find materials for use. He said he is treating it as bonus gp value usable only for use with Craft (Alchemy). The higher the check the more I get, basically.

Do you know how much he's saying you get with each survival or know (nature) check? Like is he basically using the profession rules, but saying to make a survival/know check. Basically I'd like to know the specifics.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
solandras 04-21-08, 03:55 PM	I was wondering how you guys would rule gathering materials to craft with. Other than of course buying them for 1/3 the price of the item in question. For instance, if you are far from civilization, out in a huge forest and you want to make a bow. I'd think you'd have all the materials at hand, but still the quality of the wood, the size of it, etc. all would have to be taken into consideration by the grafter. As such I think even if that situation it'd take some kind of skill check to show that the crafter gathers useful materials. For now until I get a better idea I've just been saying that after 8hrs of searching make a Craft (X) check (X being whatever you're crafting). Divide that by 2 and that's the amount of useful raw materials that you gather in that time. Any thoughts on how to make it better, more balanced, or if anyone knows any official rulings?
Captain_Kobold 04-21-08, 04:50 PM	Just use the usual Profession skill rules to determine how much moneys-worth the character can make each day. When they have made enough to be equal to the value of the raw materials required, then thewy have gathered enough for the crafter to use. Quite often, the gathering profession will not be the same as the Craft skill. I'd allow a character with the appropriate craft skill to make the check untrained however, even though they usually cannot be.
solandras 04-22-08, 02:23 PM	Just checking over the profession rules would basically do what I said except make it a week as the time interval instead of a day. That will lead to insane times for a bit more expensive stuff, like say armor. For example, let's say you're fairly good at what you do, getting a +10. You take 10 on the check, netting you a 20, and thus 10g worth per week. The cost of a chain shirt is 100, and thus the amount of raw materials you'd need is 33.3g. So it'd take you a little bit over 3 weeks to find the materials you'd need. This gets more insane when you take into account masterworked items, or just expensive stuff like heavy armor. I suppose while that might not be the most inaccurate, I don't know any player who'd want to spend that kind of time unless absolutely neccessary.
Captain_Kobold 04-23-08, 04:38 AM	If, as you said, they are far from civilisation, then I think 4 weeks is a very generous estimate for characters to get the raw materials for a chain shirt together. You're talking about prospecting a large area to find iron-bearing rocks, digging out a mine, kludging together a forge to smelt out the iron, upgrading the forge to be able to create steel, making the tools necessary to work that steel, and drawing out the steel into the wire that will be used to create the links. Simultaneously, you would have to hunt down a large animal, skin it, and then tan and treat its hide to make the leather components of the armour. Even for a non-composite bow, you aren't just talking about walking up to any old tree and hacking off a branch. You're looking at wandering around the forest to find the right sort of tree, then felling it, splitting it, and removing the section by the heartwood that you will be crafting the bowstave out of. Not to mention hunting down and treating the guts of some small, furry critter for the bowstring. This is why most players prefer to buy their raw materials ready-prepared. With regards to masterwork, you're spending the additional time finding higher-quality materials refining them, and making extra, so that you can discard any that appear to have any form of flaw.
solandras 04-23-08, 06:04 AM	First, as a minor note I was thinking of using that rule for gathering materials regardless of where you are. For instance, if you're scrounging around in a metropolis. Through random digging around, going through garbage, begging, etc. you'd get about the same thing. If, as you said, they are far from civilisation, then I think 4 weeks is a very generous estimate for characters to get the raw materials for a chain shirt together. You're talking about prospecting a large area to find iron-bearing rocks, digging out a mine, kludging together a forge to smelt out the iron, upgrading the forge to be able to create steel, making the tools necessary to work that steel, and drawing out the steel into the wire that will be used to create the links. Actually I'm more or less talking about just getting the raw metal. So no forge, tools, etc. The actual crafting would require that stuff of course, but just obtaining it wouldn't. Simultaneously, you would have to hunt down a large animal, skin it, and then tan and treat its hide to make the leather components of the armour. Again I was talking raw material, meaning just the untreated hide. The actual treating is part of the crafting process to make armor (or at least that's how I see it). And for a DnD character you'd think that would take weeks? Or even a single week? Even for a non-composite bow, you aren't just talking about walking up to any old tree and hacking off a branch. You're looking at wandering around the forest to find the right sort of tree, then felling it, splitting it, and removing the section by the heartwood that you will be crafting the bowstave out of. Not to mention hunting down and treating the guts of some small, furry critter for the bowstring. True, this is why I'd think if you know what you're doing (meaning having a pretty good bonus) it'd take a few days. Because anyone with a large enough axe can take down a tree and say that they have wood for a bow in less than a hour, it really isn't going to work to make that bow you need. Just so you know, the entire reason I'm asking is because I'm running a Midnight campaign (if you've ever heard of it). If you haven't heard of it, think of it this way. Lord of the Rings, except Sauron won, now the PC's begin play 100yrs later. The PC's have very little chance of finding people to barter with to obtain steel and other materials that are neccessary for them to make their own things. Buying weapons/armor is right out of the question.
Wheldrake 04-23-08, 06:43 AM	It's going to depend mostly on the nature of the raw materials. If it's leather goods (armor, etc) then it involves hunting the animals, skinning them and curing the hides - not necessarily a great deal of time. If it's bowyery or fletching, then there are several raw materials needed: wood, bone, sinew, steel arrowheads, feathers, etc. For the wood, check to be sure the right sort of wood is going to be growing in your forest depending on climate and altitude. If the goods are metal in nature, then it's going to take a long time to prepare the materials, even assuming PCs have access to an abaondoned mine. Ad hoc. Improvise, --- Wheldrake
Kerelis 04-23-08, 08:35 AM	I'm playing a character with Craft (Alchemy). The DM has ruled that I can make survival or knowledge (nature) checks as we travel to find materials for use. He said he is treating it as bonus gp value usable only for use with Craft (Alchemy). The higher the check the more I get, basically.
solandras 04-24-08, 12:08 AM	I'm playing a character with Craft (Alchemy). The DM has ruled that I can make survival or knowledge (nature) checks as we travel to find materials for use. He said he is treating it as bonus gp value usable only for use with Craft (Alchemy). The higher the check the more I get, basically. Do you know how much he's saying you get with each survival or know (nature) check? Like is he basically using the profession rules, but saying to make a survival/know check. Basically I'd like to know the specifics.