Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Easalyamusedoldman 09-13-07, 01:34 PM	Ok, I'm going to make a monk who will be advancing to Drunken Master and i was wondering what i should take to buff his speed and maneuverability. I was thinking about makeing him a goliath(sp?) from Races of Stone. I have the PH, PHII, ToB, BoED, BoVD, Complete Adven. and Warrior, ans Sword and Fist to work with. Any help would be great.
dman11235 09-13-07, 01:45 PM	Well, don't worry about AC, because it won't be great. I think any thing that doesn't work off of stunning fist would be fine. Touch of Golden Ice if you're exalted. Power attack maybe. Dodge/mobility/spring attack for mobility, and possibly speed of though if you can be psionic.
The_Shaman 09-13-07, 01:45 PM	Well, the dodge - mobility - SA feat tree would be pretty standard. I don't have my books at present, but I think PHBII had some mobility-related feats as well. The problem is, I don't know if these synergize so well with the drunken master - it's a pretty decent class for grappling and brawling, and it might pay to get into those as well. BTW, would the SRD (freely accessible) psionics be okay? A monk can always benefit from something like Up the Walls, Speed of Thought and Psionic charge (the last might overlap with the DM abilities a bit; not to mention the non-psionic feats there). A few levels in psionic fist or warmind won't hurt, either. BTW, are you using the S&F version of the Drunken Master? Please say yes :)
Easalyamusedoldman 09-13-07, 01:57 PM	BTW, are you using the S&F version of the Drunken Master? Please say yes :) Ja(yes in german)! Maby i will listen to you about being a brawler though, what would be good for that?
dman11235 09-13-07, 02:09 PM	Is that one actually good? Not knowing the S&F one as it's the 3.0 version, but still good brawling feats are....I don't really know if anything will help you specialize there besides the normal stuff. Maybe Reaping Mauler?
EvilVegan 09-13-07, 02:10 PM	goliath Improved Natural Attack (monster manual) Superior Unarmed Strike (tome of battle) Monk's belt Punch = ow. Have you watched the drunken master movies? You need to. Everyone does. After getting into drunken master, take a level of barbarian for +10 speed and rage!
Easalyamusedoldman 09-13-07, 02:12 PM	goliath Improved Natural Attack (monster manual) Superior Unarmed Strike (tome of battle) Monk's belt Punch = ow. Have you watched the drunken master movies? You need to. Everyone does. After getting into drunken master, take a level of barbarian for +10 speed and rage! lol.:D
Eerongal 09-13-07, 02:14 PM	BTW, are you using the S&F version of the Drunken Master? Please say yes :) Keep in mind that S&F was 3.0, CW was 3.5 and anything in CW superceedes anything that was reprinted from S&F (in fact that was the point of CW if i'm not mistaken, to reprint, clarify and retool stuff from S&F, as well as add new stuff). Be sure your DM is ok with that. Are you only looking to increase your speed and maneuverability? If so, you could get spring attack (core) + run (core) + fleet of foot (complete warrior). That's one of my favorite monk combos. You can run really far quickly, you can also make 90 degree turn when running, and you have spring attack. Also, there's a feet that gives +5ft of movement, I can't remember what it's called though, or where it is. Mayhaps someone else can help there?
dman11235 09-13-07, 02:27 PM	Dash. And you've got it right about S&F and CW.
Easalyamusedoldman 09-13-07, 03:09 PM	Damn. I have to use the one in CW.
The_Shaman 09-13-07, 03:21 PM	Actually, better try to update the old one. All in all, the PrCs in the books are just suggestions, whose main merit is that they come with premade fluff (saving the DM some work) and are supposedly more balanced. Unfortunately, the S&F drunken master is afaik the most horrendously nerfed PrC in 3.5, bar none. For brawler I'd consider (after the obvious improved grapple and, if possible, trip) something like Grappling Block (OA), possibly earth's embrace (OA/CW), ideally something that helps you against larger/more stable foes. Even then, foes with freedom of movement or spells remain a problem... at least unless you're able to come up with a way to carry a temporary antimagic field :) . BTW, if you want a few levels of filler, multiclassing provides some useful options. Psionic Fist, for example, gives you some quite useful powers for mobility, brawling, or utility, while Shou Disciple improves your BAB and gets a few nice feats..
Easalyamusedoldman 09-13-07, 03:33 PM	I think that brawler is what i'm going for, basicly i want to beat people with impro. weapons, and thanks to large build, i can use bigger stuff.
dman11235 09-13-07, 03:49 PM	If you don't use the drink like a demon ability, you will still ba a respectable monk. Grab a monk's belt and SUS and at level 20 (10 levels each) you'll deal 19th level unarmed strike damage + improvised weapon.
Easalyamusedoldman 09-13-07, 03:54 PM	If you don't use the drink like a demon ability, you will still ba a respectable monk. Grab a monk's belt and SUS and at level 20 (10 levels each) you'll deal 19th level unarmed strike damage + improvised weapon. Well, I don't think that my monk will be all that respectable in the first place, so thats not a problem. I like the idea of monk/drunken master/barb.
EvilVegan 09-13-07, 04:07 PM	Well, I don't think that my monk will be all that respectable in the first place, so thats not a problem. I like the idea of monk/drunken master/barb. Monk 6 is a good drop point. Then drunken master ASAP. You have to be chaotic or can't be lawful to be a drunken master and you don't lose any monk abilities for alignment changing, but you can't go back. Barbarian is a favored class of Goliath I think. . . It works really well. Monk 6/barbarian 4/Drunken Master 10. I hit you with a table. You take 4d8 + 3d6 damage.
Easalyamusedoldman 09-13-07, 04:09 PM	Monk 6 is a good drop point. Then drunken master ASAP. You have to be chaotic or can't be lawful to be a drunken master and you don't lose any monk abilities for alignment changing, but you can't go back. Barbarian is a favored class of Goliath I think. . . It works really well. Monk 6/barbarian 4/Drunken Master 10. I hit you with a table. You take 4d8 + 3d6 damage. Thanks man. The table thing was the point, or doors, or the bar, or a tree...
EvilVegan 09-13-07, 04:10 PM	Or the dwarf.
Easalyamusedoldman 09-13-07, 04:18 PM	Or the dwarf. Or the Half-Orc.
EvilVegan 09-13-07, 04:26 PM	Or his mom.
Easalyamusedoldman 09-13-07, 04:33 PM	Or his mom. :)
The_Shaman 09-13-07, 05:18 PM	I think you shouldn't underestimate the Shou Disciple PrC. After 5 levels, you can flurry with ANY melee weapon, which I'd say means improvised weapons as well. Also, by most readings, it stacks for flurry progression (monk 6/SD5) and even - going by the text in the weapon and armor proficiency column - allows you to flurry in light armor. Oh, and you get bonus feats. I think you could use it if you want your monk to get his fists dirty. Just the flurry with improvised weapons should be enough to consider it for a true drunken master monk imo :) It is in Unapproachable East, btw. That book has some great PrCs, check it out. However, some concepts might need minimal updating - it was apparently published in the grey period between 3.0 and 3.5, so it still speaks of concepts like unarmed BAB (usually associated with the flurry progression in 3.5; this link was confirmed in the OA update article in Dragon 318).
Easalyamusedoldman 09-13-07, 05:53 PM	I think you shouldn't underestimate the Shou Disciple PrC. After 5 levels, you can flurry with ANY melee weapon, which I'd say means improvised weapons as well. Also, by most readings, it stacks for flurry progression (monk 6/SD5) and even - going by the text in the weapon and armor proficiency column - allows you to flurry in light armor. Oh, and you get bonus feats. I think you could use it if you want your monk to get his fists dirty. Just the flurry with improvised weapons should be enough to consider it for a true drunken master monk imo :) It is in Unapproachable East, btw. That book has some great PrCs, check it out. However, some concepts might need minimal updating - it was apparently published in the grey period between 3.0 and 3.5, so it still speaks of concepts like unarmed BAB (usually associated with the flurry progression in 3.5; this link was confirmed in the OA update article in Dragon 318). Thanks, i like that idea.
Tsuul 09-13-07, 06:05 PM	Maybe a feat to give yourself permanent beer goggles. It would keep you from having to gnaw your arm off in the morning after a [poor] night of carousing. Sure you can fight well enough without an arm or two, but you'll quickly run out of appendages without this feat. A must for any drunken master. ok, ok, back to seriousness...
Easalyamusedoldman 09-14-07, 06:56 AM	Ok, I have a little back story, His tribe was enslaved by giants, but he hid and became a wanderer. A wandering monk found him and took him in. It turns out the monk was a drunken master that taught him the ways of a monk and drinking. His dream is to one day become a drunken master himself. His master died not long ago so he set out adventuring.
Templario 09-14-07, 11:33 AM	goliath Improved Natural Attack (monster manual) Superior Unarmed Strike (tome of battle) Monk's belt Punch = ow. Have you watched the drunken master movies? You need to. Everyone does. After getting into drunken master, take a level of barbarian for +10 speed and rage! Remember that Goliaths are still Medium; his Powerful Build works only on wield weapons - his fists are still Medium. A warforged with Battlefist maybe can achieve Huge damage while being Medium, but it's up to the DM (bad writing on the item description)
EvilVegan 09-14-07, 11:47 AM	Remember that Goliaths are still Medium; his Powerful Build works only on wield weapons - his fists are still Medium. A warforged with Battlefist maybe can achieve Huge damage while being Medium, but it's up to the DM (bad writing on the item description) I'm going with some loose interpretations of things, but I think monk's unarmed damage stacks with improvised weapons for drunken master (haven't read it in a while). It's still a good back up for when he's not got something else to hit them with. Also, I thought goliaths were "considered large when beneficial" but that might only be for opposed checks. :confused:
dman11235 09-14-07, 01:37 PM	Yes, it stacks. And goliaths have a specific set of things that powerful build works for. That is larger weapons, opposed checks, and maybe one other thing. Unarmed strike is not one, but I rule that it is one size larger.
EvilVegan 09-14-07, 02:34 PM	For weapons? Aren't monk's unarmed strikes treated as weapons? :D "No, this is my BIG fist."
dman11235 09-14-07, 03:27 PM	For wielding weapons.
Easalyamusedoldman 09-14-07, 05:20 PM	I was right about large improb weapons though right?
dman11235 09-14-07, 05:29 PM	Yup.
Easalyamusedoldman 09-14-07, 05:35 PM	Yup. ok, thats good. If it didn't I wouldn't be useing the Golieth