Good feats for a swordsage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Good feats for a swordsage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darth Krieg
04-12-07, 12:44 AM so i'm starting out as a swordsage for our next campaign and i've got the starting dodge feat and my dm is letting me switch out improved initiative for adaptive style, i've heard it's completely necessary for a swordsage.

For the weapon focus class feature i chose diamond mind.

ok so i was wondering what some other good feats for a swordsage would be.
Nadaka
04-12-07, 12:51 AM Adaptive Style is a must have. It lets you ready (and recover) all maneuvers as a full round action.
3DJutsu
04-12-07, 01:25 AM Grab Acrobatic strike at 9th level, assuming you've max'd out your Tumble. Great for melee skirmishers.
ThePope
04-12-07, 01:43 AM i second the acrobatic strike... as always, the question though is how do you wanna use him?

TWF? 2H? heck, Sword and Board?
anything in particular you wanna focus on? schools maybe?
Darth Krieg
04-12-07, 01:51 AM right now i'm focusing strictly on desert wind and tiger claw schools. though i have 2 diamond mind maneuvers for the purposes of going eternal blade at 12th or 13th level. my dude does mainly melee combat, with the exception of the ranged strikes that desert wind offers. he doesn't use bows or throwing weapons.

the weapons he does have are (all mwk) rapier, bastard sword, and trident.

two handed fighting will probably be my focus (is a feat required for that)

acrobatic strike sounds cool, and yes my tumble score is and will always be maxed out, since i took flame's blessing as a stance. what book is that in?

also what is sword and board? if it's shield related then it's out because if i use a shieild i lose my wis mod to ac.

thanks for the interest and future feedback
InkBlot
04-12-07, 02:20 AM Sword&Board is a cute way of saying sword and shield.

You don't need a feat to hold a weapon in two hands (THF). When using a weapon in two hands, you add 1.5x your strength bonus instead of just 1x your strength bonus. For example, if you have a +4 strength bonus and you hold your trident in two hands, then when you attack with it you will deal 1d8 + 6 piercing damage.

Power Attack helps two-handed fighting, but isn't neccessary, especialy since swordsages only have 3/4 BAB. When using Power Attack while two-handed fighting, you get double the amount of bonus damage.

You don't need a feat to use two weapons at once (TWF), but you will want the Two Weapon Fighting feat if you don't want to stink at it.

Acrobatic Strike is from Player's Handbook II. +4 to attack a creature after tumbling through it's threatened area. Easy prerequisites, but you have to be at least 9th level.
Lotus Crane
04-12-07, 02:40 AM right now i'm focusing strictly on desert wind and tiger claw schools.
Please consider Shadow Hand or Stone Dragon instead of Desert Wind. Desert Wind is well and truly the weakest of the 9 schools, because at higher levels almost every enemy has fire resistance or immunity, and some even have evasion. I know Desert Wind looks cool, but once you get past the surface, mechanically it's a joke. The only Desert Wind maneuver even remotely worthwhile is Desert Tempest, and even then, only if you have some way of boosting your speed by a ridiculous amount. If you need ranged attacks, shadow garrote and shadow noose will serve you better than any of the easily negated fire AoE's of Desert Wind.
3DJutsu
04-12-07, 02:53 AM i second the acrobatic strike... as always, the question though is how do you wanna use him?

TWF? 2H? heck, Sword and Board?
anything in particular you wanna focus on? schools maybe?

Swordsages are not proficient with shields, and they lose thier wis to AC when using one.
ThePope
04-12-07, 02:57 AM til you get to those higher levels though i highly suggest picking up Burning/Searing Blade. as a swordsage you can easily afford manuevers now that you'll dumb later and those two boosts do some quality amounts of damage boosting if they aren't resisted.

if you go with 2H and do pick up Power Attack then make sure you pick up Emerald Razor also... its a touch attack so you can use your full Power Attack for max damage :)

and acrobatic strike is in Player's Handbook 2
Nadaka
04-12-07, 03:25 AM With my swordsage I am focusing on shadow hand and diamond mind with setting sun not far behind. Lots of counters, some wicked strikes and shadowhand teleports and debuffs.

My weapon of choice is the spiked chain and most of my feat will be in there. With shadow strike and insightful strike I'll be adding str * 1.5 + dex + wis to damage on diamond mind or shadow hand strikes while in a shadowhand stance. Add to that a weapon enchanted with martial discipline in shadowhand and diamond mind I should also normally get an extra +7 to hit on those strikes as well.
AllisterH
04-12-07, 08:36 AM Please consider Shadow Hand or Stone Dragon instead of Desert Wind. Desert Wind is well and truly the weakest of the 9 schools, because at higher levels almost every enemy has fire resistance or immunity, and some even have evasion. I know Desert Wind looks cool, but once you get past the surface, mechanically it's a joke. The only Desert Wind maneuver even remotely worthwhile is Desert Tempest, and even then, only if you have some way of boosting your speed by a ridiculous amount. If you need ranged attacks, shadow garrote and shadow noose will serve you better than any of the easily negated fire AoE's of Desert Wind.

Quite true, then again, it is easy enough to have your DM allow you to switch the damage type which then makes up for it.
starfire311
04-12-07, 09:31 AM Quite true, then again, it is easy enough to have your DM allow you to switch the damage type which then makes up for it.

yeah we are playing a game in which someone wanted to go with a cold themed martial character, so the DM let her change the theme of desert wind to be an arctic wind, and all fire was replaced with cold, it is still not great since a lot things have cold resistance or immunity, but she likes it, I think her and the DM are working on a feat that will let her maneuvers overcome cold resistance/immunity. Even with this feat it still makes desert wind weaker than the other discplines, because it is the only one that would require a feat to function at high levels.
Darth Krieg
04-12-07, 01:02 PM thanks for the input, and despite the negativity towards desert wind it's one of my favorite, skills like deathmark and fire riposte are amazing. can't wait to learn leaping flame; you shot an arrow at me? well now i'm right next to you.

power attack sounds nice, i've got a great strength mod, a +4 so i may take that. my wisdom mod is also a +4. the rest of my stats are +0 or +1 though my dex is a +2.

i'm gonna prestige class as an eternal blade when i get the chance, i can then out some devoted spirit maneuvers under my belt.

i was also thinking desert wind dodge would be a good feat to take as well.
Lotus Crane
04-12-07, 06:59 PM thanks for the input, and despite the negativity towards desert wind it's one of my favorite, skills like deathmark and fire riposte are amazing. can't wait to learn leaping flame; you shot an arrow at me? well now i'm right next to you.
Death mark is likely to injure more allies than enemies, fire riposte is flat damage (it doesn't stack with your normal weapon damage + Str, which is likely to be higher), and leaping flame is too reactive for my taste; I'd rather use sudden leap, shadow stride, or shadow blink, and strike first.

One suggestion I made in an earlier thread to help bring Desert Wind up to the level of the other schools was to change its name to Aurora Borealis (because Rainbow Wind sounds silly), and allow the swordsage to choose any energy type each time he initiates a maneuver. If it's fire, cold, electricity, or acid, keep the damage as listed in the book; if it's sonic or force, reduce all damage dice by one step (d6's become d4's, d8's become d6's). This still wouldn't make the school any better than the other 8 (because half of the maneuvers are still either flat damage that doesn't stack with your weapon, or negated by Reflex saves), but at least energy resistance and immunity wouldn't be a factor (in fact, with that much flexibility, you could actually take advantage of energy vulnerabilities).
Darth Krieg
04-12-07, 08:43 PM hey i like desert wind, i like the variety it offers and gives interms of lots of ranged strikes.
Sphyre
04-13-07, 02:52 AM Death mark is likely to injure more allies than enemies, fire riposte is flat damage (it doesn't stack with your normal weapon damage + Str, which is likely to be higher), and leaping flame is too reactive for my taste; I'd rather use sudden leap, shadow stride, or shadow blink, and strike first.

I've been using Deathmark on my Jade Phoenix Mage in a melee heavy party of 5 (Druid, Soulknife, Rogue, Barbarian, and me) and I've been able to get my deathmark off quite a few times without problem. Ussually it's to take the grouped baddies in the back while everyone's playing around with the front or big guy in the battle. Today the druid's animal companion got in the way, but I did it anyway. :tongue:

It can get in the way, but in my experience, if you look for those openings that you can get it off, it's great.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth Krieg 04-12-07, 12:44 AM	so i'm starting out as a swordsage for our next campaign and i've got the starting dodge feat and my dm is letting me switch out improved initiative for adaptive style, i've heard it's completely necessary for a swordsage. For the weapon focus class feature i chose diamond mind. ok so i was wondering what some other good feats for a swordsage would be.
Nadaka 04-12-07, 12:51 AM	Adaptive Style is a must have. It lets you ready (and recover) all maneuvers as a full round action.
3DJutsu 04-12-07, 01:25 AM	Grab Acrobatic strike at 9th level, assuming you've max'd out your Tumble. Great for melee skirmishers.
ThePope 04-12-07, 01:43 AM	i second the acrobatic strike... as always, the question though is how do you wanna use him? TWF? 2H? heck, Sword and Board? anything in particular you wanna focus on? schools maybe?
Darth Krieg 04-12-07, 01:51 AM	right now i'm focusing strictly on desert wind and tiger claw schools. though i have 2 diamond mind maneuvers for the purposes of going eternal blade at 12th or 13th level. my dude does mainly melee combat, with the exception of the ranged strikes that desert wind offers. he doesn't use bows or throwing weapons. the weapons he does have are (all mwk) rapier, bastard sword, and trident. two handed fighting will probably be my focus (is a feat required for that) acrobatic strike sounds cool, and yes my tumble score is and will always be maxed out, since i took flame's blessing as a stance. what book is that in? also what is sword and board? if it's shield related then it's out because if i use a shieild i lose my wis mod to ac. thanks for the interest and future feedback
InkBlot 04-12-07, 02:20 AM	Sword&Board is a cute way of saying sword and shield. You don't need a feat to hold a weapon in two hands (THF). When using a weapon in two hands, you add 1.5x your strength bonus instead of just 1x your strength bonus. For example, if you have a +4 strength bonus and you hold your trident in two hands, then when you attack with it you will deal 1d8 + 6 piercing damage. Power Attack helps two-handed fighting, but isn't neccessary, especialy since swordsages only have 3/4 BAB. When using Power Attack while two-handed fighting, you get double the amount of bonus damage. You don't need a feat to use two weapons at once (TWF), but you will want the Two Weapon Fighting feat if you don't want to stink at it. Acrobatic Strike is from Player's Handbook II. +4 to attack a creature after tumbling through it's threatened area. Easy prerequisites, but you have to be at least 9th level.
Lotus Crane 04-12-07, 02:40 AM	right now i'm focusing strictly on desert wind and tiger claw schools. Please consider Shadow Hand or Stone Dragon instead of Desert Wind. Desert Wind is well and truly the weakest of the 9 schools, because at higher levels almost every enemy has fire resistance or immunity, and some even have evasion. I know Desert Wind looks cool, but once you get past the surface, mechanically it's a joke. The only Desert Wind maneuver even remotely worthwhile is Desert Tempest, and even then, only if you have some way of boosting your speed by a ridiculous amount. If you need ranged attacks, shadow garrote and shadow noose will serve you better than any of the easily negated fire AoE's of Desert Wind.
3DJutsu 04-12-07, 02:53 AM	i second the acrobatic strike... as always, the question though is how do you wanna use him? TWF? 2H? heck, Sword and Board? anything in particular you wanna focus on? schools maybe? Swordsages are not proficient with shields, and they lose thier wis to AC when using one.
ThePope 04-12-07, 02:57 AM	til you get to those higher levels though i highly suggest picking up Burning/Searing Blade. as a swordsage you can easily afford manuevers now that you'll dumb later and those two boosts do some quality amounts of damage boosting if they aren't resisted. if you go with 2H and do pick up Power Attack then make sure you pick up Emerald Razor also... its a touch attack so you can use your full Power Attack for max damage :) and acrobatic strike is in Player's Handbook 2
Nadaka 04-12-07, 03:25 AM	With my swordsage I am focusing on shadow hand and diamond mind with setting sun not far behind. Lots of counters, some wicked strikes and shadowhand teleports and debuffs. My weapon of choice is the spiked chain and most of my feat will be in there. With shadow strike and insightful strike I'll be adding str * 1.5 + dex + wis to damage on diamond mind or shadow hand strikes while in a shadowhand stance. Add to that a weapon enchanted with martial discipline in shadowhand and diamond mind I should also normally get an extra +7 to hit on those strikes as well.
AllisterH 04-12-07, 08:36 AM	Please consider Shadow Hand or Stone Dragon instead of Desert Wind. Desert Wind is well and truly the weakest of the 9 schools, because at higher levels almost every enemy has fire resistance or immunity, and some even have evasion. I know Desert Wind looks cool, but once you get past the surface, mechanically it's a joke. The only Desert Wind maneuver even remotely worthwhile is Desert Tempest, and even then, only if you have some way of boosting your speed by a ridiculous amount. If you need ranged attacks, shadow garrote and shadow noose will serve you better than any of the easily negated fire AoE's of Desert Wind. Quite true, then again, it is easy enough to have your DM allow you to switch the damage type which then makes up for it.
starfire311 04-12-07, 09:31 AM	Quite true, then again, it is easy enough to have your DM allow you to switch the damage type which then makes up for it. yeah we are playing a game in which someone wanted to go with a cold themed martial character, so the DM let her change the theme of desert wind to be an arctic wind, and all fire was replaced with cold, it is still not great since a lot things have cold resistance or immunity, but she likes it, I think her and the DM are working on a feat that will let her maneuvers overcome cold resistance/immunity. Even with this feat it still makes desert wind weaker than the other discplines, because it is the only one that would require a feat to function at high levels.
Darth Krieg 04-12-07, 01:02 PM	thanks for the input, and despite the negativity towards desert wind it's one of my favorite, skills like deathmark and fire riposte are amazing. can't wait to learn leaping flame; you shot an arrow at me? well now i'm right next to you. power attack sounds nice, i've got a great strength mod, a +4 so i may take that. my wisdom mod is also a +4. the rest of my stats are +0 or +1 though my dex is a +2. i'm gonna prestige class as an eternal blade when i get the chance, i can then out some devoted spirit maneuvers under my belt. i was also thinking desert wind dodge would be a good feat to take as well.
Lotus Crane 04-12-07, 06:59 PM	thanks for the input, and despite the negativity towards desert wind it's one of my favorite, skills like deathmark and fire riposte are amazing. can't wait to learn leaping flame; you shot an arrow at me? well now i'm right next to you. Death mark is likely to injure more allies than enemies, fire riposte is flat damage (it doesn't stack with your normal weapon damage + Str, which is likely to be higher), and leaping flame is too reactive for my taste; I'd rather use sudden leap, shadow stride, or shadow blink, and strike first. One suggestion I made in an earlier thread to help bring Desert Wind up to the level of the other schools was to change its name to Aurora Borealis (because Rainbow Wind sounds silly), and allow the swordsage to choose any energy type each time he initiates a maneuver. If it's fire, cold, electricity, or acid, keep the damage as listed in the book; if it's sonic or force, reduce all damage dice by one step (d6's become d4's, d8's become d6's). This still wouldn't make the school any better than the other 8 (because half of the maneuvers are still either flat damage that doesn't stack with your weapon, or negated by Reflex saves), but at least energy resistance and immunity wouldn't be a factor (in fact, with that much flexibility, you could actually take advantage of energy vulnerabilities).
Darth Krieg 04-12-07, 08:43 PM	hey i like desert wind, i like the variety it offers and gives interms of lots of ranged strikes.
Sphyre 04-13-07, 02:52 AM	Death mark is likely to injure more allies than enemies, fire riposte is flat damage (it doesn't stack with your normal weapon damage + Str, which is likely to be higher), and leaping flame is too reactive for my taste; I'd rather use sudden leap, shadow stride, or shadow blink, and strike first. I've been using Deathmark on my Jade Phoenix Mage in a melee heavy party of 5 (Druid, Soulknife, Rogue, Barbarian, and me) and I've been able to get my deathmark off quite a few times without problem. Ussually it's to take the grouped baddies in the back while everyone's playing around with the front or big guy in the battle. Today the druid's animal companion got in the way, but I did it anyway. :tongue: It can get in the way, but in my experience, if you look for those openings that you can get it off, it's great.