Good fighter feats starting out [Archive] - Wizards Community

Good fighter feats starting out [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
cloudstrife2500
07-26-07, 04:26 AM I originally had a fighter that I brought up basically around dual-wielding and then I started reading over the players manual all over again and started to think about the weapon focus feat with weapon specialization.

What do you guys think would be some good feats starting out with (I usually play a human to get the extra feat at level 1 but maybe there is also a better class I could play (nothing overpowered like a ....half dragon orc or whatever it is...takes the fun out of it)?)
Kouk
07-26-07, 06:45 AM There is no ideal feat selection, it all depends on what you want to have your character do.

Generally I like Weapon Focus, it always retains some usefulness, and missing by 1 point is a PITA.

Some people don't like it, because it is a "minor" boost.

And most fighters can't go wrong with Power Attack (another reason I like Weapon Focus, to counter some of the attack roll penalties from Power Attack).
tarkin
07-26-07, 10:44 AM Please note that it is a TOTAL myth that "you can't go wrong with Power Attack".

Power Attack more often than not decreases the average damage done.

People almost always tend to over-use it,

As a general rule, if you need a 13-19 to hit, do NOT power Attack.

Moreover, when people do make the correct decision to power attack, they usually get the amount they should be doing it for wrong.

Now, there are some blatant exceptions, such as when you need a natural 20 to hit, or when you miss only on a natural 1.

But in general use, Power Attack is poorly done and is far more likely to reduce your average damage than to increase it.
Dalthbar
07-26-07, 10:49 AM Cleave is always good as well.

Also, while it's a bit premature, consider what possible PrCs or feat paths that you may want to qualify for.

For instance, Dodge may suck as a feat, but if you want Whirlwind Attack, it might make sense to just take it now.
NobodyRemembersThis
07-26-07, 11:01 AM Basing on that. Tarkin, would you consider then changing powre attack to a flat -3 to hit, +5 damage? or possibly -2 to hit, +5 damage? It would take all of the guesswork out of it. It removes the scaling, but I think it makes the feat more user friendly. Thoughts?
tui
07-26-07, 11:54 AM Your feat selection should really depend on the combat style you want to focus on. Take a read through Dictum Mortuum's Fighter's Handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=863508) for ideas.
Dusk Argent
07-26-07, 12:15 PM I also play human Fighters... and for myself, Improved Initiative is always a good choice for a 1st lvl character no matter what the build. Being able to get the 1st attack/react before your opponents is a huge advantage, imo.
tafkamhokie
07-26-07, 12:36 PM Up until 5th level or so, I really don't think you can top Cleave as a feat choice for any kind of fighter.

At higher levels it is less useful since additional attacks are easier to get (iterative attacks, haste spells, two weapon fighting, etc). At low levels, getting more than one attack per round is a lot tougher to do. And a bunch of the things you fight at low levels drop in one hit from a primary bruiser anyway, so you are getting a free attack just about every round, assuming you position yourself properly on the battlegrid.
eggplantm
07-26-07, 01:54 PM There are so many directions to take.

I'd say
Exotic weapon prof - any two headed one
Weapon focus - same exotic weapon (bonus applies to both)
Two Weapon Fighting

Depending on which exotic weapon you choose can open a lot of other choices but some are great no matter what

Power attack - Swing this bad boy with both hands to get that -1 att for +2 dmg bonus. This gives you great versatility with an exotic two headed weapon.

Improved trip or disarm - if you took the dire flail
Kouk
07-26-07, 04:09 PM Please note that it is a TOTAL myth that "you can't go wrong with Power Attack".

Power Attack more often than not decreases the average damage done.

People almost always tend to over-use it,

As a general rule, if you need a 13-19 to hit, do NOT power Attack.

Moreover, when people do make the correct decision to power attack, they usually get the amount they should be doing it for wrong.

Now, there are some blatant exceptions, such as when you need a natural 20 to hit, or when you miss only on a natural 1.

But in general use, Power Attack is poorly done and is far more likely to reduce your average damage than to increase it.

Well, I said for "most" fighters, as in most builds. Power Attack is a pretty good feat (obviously if it seriously inhibits your ability to hit it wouldn't be wise to use it), but it also opens up several strong feat trees that many fighter-types also find useful, like Cleave and Imp. Sunder, and some feats from splatbooks.

Statistical difference or not, fighting is always a gamble of some kind. Usually a fight only takes a couple of rounds, so you would want the few attacks you get to make to really count despite any statistical (things that matter in hundreds or thousands of uses) shortcomings. Generally builds that use Power Attack often have great STR and other attack boosting things which really equal out any penalties to hit compared to a character that does not invest in to-hit as heavily.

And, smashing something for 20+ damage when you roll a 1 for weapon damage is pretty nice in itself, and is great help with roleplaying heavy-hitters that don't always land a blow, but when they do...
Puca
07-26-07, 04:54 PM I would look at your later feats and acquire your prereqs early out, e.g. Power Attack might not be a good option that often, but youve got tons of feats that have it as a prereq, so if you are going to want any of them, now is the time. Dodge isnt that great, but if you want Spring Attack, you might as well take it now.
LoneStranger
07-26-07, 07:49 PM The best thing to do is look at the style you want to have for your fighter and go from there. If you want agility take feats like Spring Attack, Dodge, and Weapon Finesse. If you want power go for Power Attack, Cleave, and especially the weapon supremacy feat tree (although that's always a good tree to climb as a fighter ;) ).

Why don't you give us some ideas of the weapon(s) you're looking at, the armor you think the character will be wearing more often than not, and how you want to fight with the character. It'll help refine the suggestions.
cloudstrife2500
07-26-07, 10:47 PM Everytime I play a fighter it is nessesary for me to have high dexterity over anything so I don't have to choose a really strong armor. I guess I am more of the type of person that wants to hit more in a round (not damage wise like with Power attack) though I don't really like two weapon fighting all that much anymore so I would just do the point blank shot the rapid shot feats to fire more in a round.
Kouk
07-27-07, 12:23 AM Everytime I play a fighter it is nessesary for me to have high dexterity over anything so I don't have to choose a really strong armor. I guess I am more of the type of person that wants to hit more in a round (not damage wise like with Power attack) though I don't really like two weapon fighting all that much anymore so I would just do the point blank shot the rapid shot feats to fire more in a round.

Well then, I guess you chose your feats already, didn't you?
Steidas
07-27-07, 12:36 AM Ehr...

1. Weapon Focus (Longsword)
1. Monkey Grip
2. Two Weapon Fighting

:)

Whoopin' -3 on attacks + Str Modifier by level 2. How more AD&D can you get than that?

Higher levels:
3. Free!
4. Weapon Specialization
6. Free!
6. Free!
8. Melee Weapon Mastery
Rolof
07-27-07, 03:37 AM I'm pretty much in agreement with what other posters said, at low levels, it
might be less "sexy", but the utilitarian feats like weapon focus, dodge, and
improved intitiative help give you a statistical advantage.

The "does it stack?" controversy aside; if you're gonna be a frontline fighter,
melee weapon mastery is just about impossible to pass up. So in my opinion,
weapon focus and weapon specialization are essential. However, I hate the
lack of skill points in fighters, so I tend to grab a level in something else for
character creation, ranger, scout, or rogue are all nice.
RaivokasMagma
07-29-07, 07:41 AM Power attack gives nice feats like cleave and many others(Improved sunder bull rush and overrun for exapmle)Thats just my opinion.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cloudstrife2500 07-26-07, 04:26 AM	I originally had a fighter that I brought up basically around dual-wielding and then I started reading over the players manual all over again and started to think about the weapon focus feat with weapon specialization. What do you guys think would be some good feats starting out with (I usually play a human to get the extra feat at level 1 but maybe there is also a better class I could play (nothing overpowered like a ....half dragon orc or whatever it is...takes the fun out of it)?)
Kouk 07-26-07, 06:45 AM	There is no ideal feat selection, it all depends on what you want to have your character do. Generally I like Weapon Focus, it always retains some usefulness, and missing by 1 point is a PITA. Some people don't like it, because it is a "minor" boost. And most fighters can't go wrong with Power Attack (another reason I like Weapon Focus, to counter some of the attack roll penalties from Power Attack).
tarkin 07-26-07, 10:44 AM	Please note that it is a TOTAL myth that "you can't go wrong with Power Attack". Power Attack more often than not decreases the average damage done. People almost always tend to over-use it, As a general rule, if you need a 13-19 to hit, do NOT power Attack. Moreover, when people do make the correct decision to power attack, they usually get the amount they should be doing it for wrong. Now, there are some blatant exceptions, such as when you need a natural 20 to hit, or when you miss only on a natural 1. But in general use, Power Attack is poorly done and is far more likely to reduce your average damage than to increase it.
Dalthbar 07-26-07, 10:49 AM	Cleave is always good as well. Also, while it's a bit premature, consider what possible PrCs or feat paths that you may want to qualify for. For instance, Dodge may suck as a feat, but if you want Whirlwind Attack, it might make sense to just take it now.
NobodyRemembersThis 07-26-07, 11:01 AM	Basing on that. Tarkin, would you consider then changing powre attack to a flat -3 to hit, +5 damage? or possibly -2 to hit, +5 damage? It would take all of the guesswork out of it. It removes the scaling, but I think it makes the feat more user friendly. Thoughts?
tui 07-26-07, 11:54 AM	Your feat selection should really depend on the combat style you want to focus on. Take a read through Dictum Mortuum's Fighter's Handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=863508) for ideas.
Dusk Argent 07-26-07, 12:15 PM	I also play human Fighters... and for myself, Improved Initiative is always a good choice for a 1st lvl character no matter what the build. Being able to get the 1st attack/react before your opponents is a huge advantage, imo.
tafkamhokie 07-26-07, 12:36 PM	Up until 5th level or so, I really don't think you can top Cleave as a feat choice for any kind of fighter. At higher levels it is less useful since additional attacks are easier to get (iterative attacks, haste spells, two weapon fighting, etc). At low levels, getting more than one attack per round is a lot tougher to do. And a bunch of the things you fight at low levels drop in one hit from a primary bruiser anyway, so you are getting a free attack just about every round, assuming you position yourself properly on the battlegrid.
eggplantm 07-26-07, 01:54 PM	There are so many directions to take. I'd say Exotic weapon prof - any two headed one Weapon focus - same exotic weapon (bonus applies to both) Two Weapon Fighting Depending on which exotic weapon you choose can open a lot of other choices but some are great no matter what Power attack - Swing this bad boy with both hands to get that -1 att for +2 dmg bonus. This gives you great versatility with an exotic two headed weapon. Improved trip or disarm - if you took the dire flail
Kouk 07-26-07, 04:09 PM	Please note that it is a TOTAL myth that "you can't go wrong with Power Attack". Power Attack more often than not decreases the average damage done. People almost always tend to over-use it, As a general rule, if you need a 13-19 to hit, do NOT power Attack. Moreover, when people do make the correct decision to power attack, they usually get the amount they should be doing it for wrong. Now, there are some blatant exceptions, such as when you need a natural 20 to hit, or when you miss only on a natural 1. But in general use, Power Attack is poorly done and is far more likely to reduce your average damage than to increase it. Well, I said for "most" fighters, as in most builds. Power Attack is a pretty good feat (obviously if it seriously inhibits your ability to hit it wouldn't be wise to use it), but it also opens up several strong feat trees that many fighter-types also find useful, like Cleave and Imp. Sunder, and some feats from splatbooks. Statistical difference or not, fighting is always a gamble of some kind. Usually a fight only takes a couple of rounds, so you would want the few attacks you get to make to really count despite any statistical (things that matter in hundreds or thousands of uses) shortcomings. Generally builds that use Power Attack often have great STR and other attack boosting things which really equal out any penalties to hit compared to a character that does not invest in to-hit as heavily. And, smashing something for 20+ damage when you roll a 1 for weapon damage is pretty nice in itself, and is great help with roleplaying heavy-hitters that don't always land a blow, but when they do...
Puca 07-26-07, 04:54 PM	I would look at your later feats and acquire your prereqs early out, e.g. Power Attack might not be a good option that often, but youve got tons of feats that have it as a prereq, so if you are going to want any of them, now is the time. Dodge isnt that great, but if you want Spring Attack, you might as well take it now.
LoneStranger 07-26-07, 07:49 PM	The best thing to do is look at the style you want to have for your fighter and go from there. If you want agility take feats like Spring Attack, Dodge, and Weapon Finesse. If you want power go for Power Attack, Cleave, and especially the weapon supremacy feat tree (although that's always a good tree to climb as a fighter ;) ). Why don't you give us some ideas of the weapon(s) you're looking at, the armor you think the character will be wearing more often than not, and how you want to fight with the character. It'll help refine the suggestions.
cloudstrife2500 07-26-07, 10:47 PM	Everytime I play a fighter it is nessesary for me to have high dexterity over anything so I don't have to choose a really strong armor. I guess I am more of the type of person that wants to hit more in a round (not damage wise like with Power attack) though I don't really like two weapon fighting all that much anymore so I would just do the point blank shot the rapid shot feats to fire more in a round.
Kouk 07-27-07, 12:23 AM	Everytime I play a fighter it is nessesary for me to have high dexterity over anything so I don't have to choose a really strong armor. I guess I am more of the type of person that wants to hit more in a round (not damage wise like with Power attack) though I don't really like two weapon fighting all that much anymore so I would just do the point blank shot the rapid shot feats to fire more in a round. Well then, I guess you chose your feats already, didn't you?
Steidas 07-27-07, 12:36 AM	Ehr... 1. Weapon Focus (Longsword) 1. Monkey Grip 2. Two Weapon Fighting :) Whoopin' -3 on attacks + Str Modifier by level 2. How more AD&D can you get than that? Higher levels: 3. Free! 4. Weapon Specialization 6. Free! 6. Free! 8. Melee Weapon Mastery
Rolof 07-27-07, 03:37 AM	I'm pretty much in agreement with what other posters said, at low levels, it might be less "sexy", but the utilitarian feats like weapon focus, dodge, and improved intitiative help give you a statistical advantage. The "does it stack?" controversy aside; if you're gonna be a frontline fighter, melee weapon mastery is just about impossible to pass up. So in my opinion, weapon focus and weapon specialization are essential. However, I hate the lack of skill points in fighters, so I tend to grab a level in something else for character creation, ranger, scout, or rogue are all nice.
RaivokasMagma 07-29-07, 07:41 AM	Power attack gives nice feats like cleave and many others(Improved sunder bull rush and overrun for exapmle)Thats just my opinion.