Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mephisto13 09-26-07, 09:05 PM	Im currently building a human grappler and im looking for grappling feats that i might be able to use to maximize grappling bonuses and damage. My class will be giving me Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grappling, so i dont have to take those. Plus, ill most definitely be taking the Reaping Mauler PrC, so ill be getting all those nice special maneuvers. So far, for feats, i have found: Clever Wrestling (Comp War) Earth's Embrace (Comp War) Combat Focus (PHB2) a prereq for Combat Stability (PHB2) Combat Vitality (to get a +8 bonus instead of +4, since ill have 3 combat form feats) :confused: Aside from these, i have no clue what else to take. Any ideas? Specifying which books the feats are from would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks!
war_thog 09-26-07, 09:39 PM	Weapon focus grapple gives +1 And if you don't mind being abberrant ish.... Lords of madness - Abberant Blood +2 grapple Deepspawn - 2 tentacles - nat attacks + a +2 grapple bonus.
Orenmir 09-26-07, 10:22 PM	Read Combat Stability closely... The bonus only applies to resisting a grapple, not all grapple checks.
Orenmir 09-26-07, 10:28 PM	Here's my current Half-Giant Paragon Chaos Monk Psychic Warrior Grappler build... If you'd like some inspiration: ECL CL Class BAB Saves Feats Bonus Feats AC FS & pen UD ML PP Psionic Powers Class Features Racial Features ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (TRAIT: Focused) Imp. Initiative (FLAW: Inattentive) (TRAIT: Stout) Earth's Embrace (FLAW: Murky-Eyed) 1 1 CMonk1 0 2 2 2 Monastic Train. Imp. Grapple +0 +d4-1 -2 d6 Imp. Una. Strike +2Con, -2Dex 2 1 CMonk1 0 2 2 2 +0 +d4-1 -2 d8 1-Stomp(Ps) Pow. Build, +2Str 3 2 PsyWar1 0 4 2 2 Combat Manif. +0 +d4-1 -2 d8 1 2 1-Grip of Iron 4 3 Paragon1 1 6 2 2 LR or SF-Conc. +0 +d4-1 -2 d8 1 2 Fire Res.-5 5 4 Paragon2 2 7 2 2 +0 +d4-1 -2 d8 2 3 1-Expansion +2Str 6 5 PsyWar2 3 8 2 2 Practiced Manif. +0 +d4-1 -2 d8 7 5 1-Force Screen 7 6 PsyWar3 4 8 3 3 Sup. Una. Strike +0 +d4-1 -2 2d6 8 7 2-Str. of My Enemy 8 7 CMonk2 5 9 4 4 Tashalatora +1 +d4 -1 2d8 8 7 Evasion 9 8 Paragon3 6 9 5 5 +1 +d4 -1 2d8 9 9 2-Painful Strike +2Con 10 9 PsyWar4 7 10 5 5 Imp. Nat. Attack +1 +d4 -1 3d8 10 13 2-Hustle 11 10 PsyWar5 7 10 5 5 Craft Unv. Item +1 +d4 -1 3d8 11 17 3-Empathetic Feedback 12 11 PsyWar6 8 11 6 6 +1 +d4 -1 4d8 12 21 3-Empathetic Transfer, Hostile 13 12 PsyWar7 9 11 6 6 Stunning Fist +1 +d4 -0 4d8 13 25 3-Mental Barrier 14 13 PsyWar8 10 12 6 6 Fiery Fist +2 +d6-1 -0 4d8 14 29 4-Energy Adaptation 15 14 PsyWar9 10 12 7 7 +2 +d6-1 -0 4d8 15 37 4-Inertial Barrier 16 15 PsyWar10 11 13 7 7 Freezing the Lifeblood +2 +d6-1 -0 6d8 16 45 4-Dimension Door, Psionic 17 16 PsyWar11 12 13 7 7 EK-Schism(4) +2 +d6-1 -0 6d8 17 53 5-Psychofeedback 18 17 PsyWar12 13 14 8 8 +3 +d6-1 -0 6d8 18 61 5-Psionic Lion's Charge(2) 19 18 PsyWar13 13 14 8 8 Ki Blast +3 +d6 -0 6d8 19 69 5-Freedom of Movement, Psionic(4) 20 19 PsyWar14 14 15 8 8 Maximize Power +3 +d6 -0 8d8 20 81 6-Form of Doom 21 20 PsyWar15 15 15 9 9 +3 +d6 -0 8d8 21 93 6-Breath of the Black Dragon
tafkamhokie 09-27-07, 12:46 PM	There have been many discussions explaining how bad Reaping Mauler is. The first problem is it requires Clever Wrestling, which by itself is a very weak feat. The next problem is the prerequisite for Clever Wrestling is to be small or medium sized...so technically any time you enlarge yourself, you lose the Clever Wrestling feat, hence you lose all the benefits of Reaping Mauler. Probably the most kick-butt prestige class for a grappler is the Justicar. You have to get 5 levels into it, but you get to the point where you can hog-tie someone you just pinned, thus rendering them helpless. That trumps most anything a Reaping Mauler can do. I'm not real impressed with Earth's Embrace, either. If you pin someone, you have to reestablish the pin every round...which uses up one of your attacks. So you end up trading an attack for 1d12 damage. Your attacks should be doing quite a bit more than that. Some other ideas: A one level dip as a cleric of Kord (or something similar). Strength domain would put Enlarge Person on your spell list. Competition domain gives you +1 to all opposed checks. Improved Trip: according to the FAQ, a prone opponent takes a -4 penalty on grapple checks in addition to attack rolls. So then an attack sequence goes: melee touch attack...opposed str check to trip...(if you win) free melee touch attack to initiate a grapple...opposed grapple check...(if you win) deal unarmed damage. At the end of a single attack, you opponent can end up prone, grappled, and damaged, plus have a lot fewer options. If you are a monk, Improved Natural Attack from the Monster Manual will boost your unarmed damage. Weapon Focus (unarmed strike) and/or Weapon Focus (grapple) can't hurt. Beyond that, you are looking for magic items or spells that can boost your size or strength. You also need someone in the party who can dispel magic to get rid of the Freedom of Movement spells your opponents will start using. I think there is a Forgotten Realm's feat called Jotunbred you can take at 1st level that basically gives you the powerful build ability (and +4 to all your grapple checks). I'm running a half giant monk / psychic warrior / kensai who specializes in the trip/grapple attack sequence. So far (he is ECL 6 right now), he seems to be pretty good at it.
RobbyPants 09-28-07, 04:18 PM	Im currently building a human grappler and im looking for grappling feats that i might be able to use to maximize grappling bonuses and damage. My class will be giving me Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Grappling, At this point, once you get a BAB +3, you have met the prereqs for Superior Unarmed Strike (from ToB). This will increase your unarmed damage without having to dip into the monk class. The nice thing about it is you can keep your BAB maxed with a warrior-type class and get some decent unarmed damage.
Mephisto13 09-29-07, 05:12 PM	Thanks for the advice! A problem arises since the grappler that I am creating is for a Midnight campaign. So, there are some feats that I will not be able to take (like the Jotunbred from FR Races...very nice feat though!). My character will deal 1d6 damage, unarmed. This will only increase if I make a pure Defender, which I won't. But in any case, Improved Natural Attack would be an awesome feat to take. As for Superior Unarmed Strike, I don't know if my unarmed damage will increase by one step (since I am already doing 1d6), but if so, that is something that I might take. Unfortunately, I (or anyone in our group) will not be able to cast Enlarge Person, as magic is something that is against the law in Midnight, and using it usually means death penalty (imagine a setting like Lord of the Rings, but Sauron won the war, and therefore the evil side has enslaved the world. There are still some little resistance, but soon, evil will defeat any remanence of good in the world. It's a world where being a demi-human is enough to get you killed, same for the use of magic, and if you resist against The Shadow, it's death as well...it's gonna make for a very interesting game). I decided to make a grappler since weapons are very rare and difficult to come by. Although I do agree about the Clever Wrestling feat being useless, I am taking it to make a Reaping Mauler. I don't mind if it isn't the most powerful grappling class out there, I just like the fact that it is a 5 level PrC, which will fit in perfectly with the kind of grappler that I am making (and there is another 10 lv PrC that i will be taking as well...). I just wish there were more feats out there that could help out a grappler (when you can't rely on magic). Mephisto
Venshad 09-30-07, 10:53 PM	Hi! I made a grappler inspired in Bane (from Batman). The discussion is here http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=883717 In fact, a grappler can be a very good option for a one-on-one fight. However, if you get in a crowed area... things can become very difficult to you. Take a look. If you find anything or have any doubt, message me.
DemiG0d 10-02-07, 01:46 AM	You should check if you can get Scorpion's Grasp, i think that's the name, from Sandstorm. It's basically improved grab :D
war_thog 10-02-07, 08:44 AM	Yeah 1v1 Grapplers Own. Group? Suck ass! I had a halfling grappler. He was fun. lvl 9 halfling with like +15 on the check or some such. He was a reaping mauler too because I liked sleeper hold :) Knock out = auto kill :) Take someone down in 2 rounds.\ Was funny when I did that to the BIG BAD ASSASSIN BOSS guy :P Me: I jump over tyhat crate and initiate grapple. Round 2: I pin. Round 3: I Coup De Grace! Hehehe.
Venshad 10-02-07, 08:49 AM	Yeah 1v1 Grapplers Own. Group? Suck ass! I had a halfling grappler. He was fun. lvl 9 halfling with like +15 on the check or some such. He was a reaping mauler too because I liked sleeper hold :) Knock out = auto kill :) Take someone down in 2 rounds.\ Was funny when I did that to the BIG BAD ASSASSIN BOSS guy :P Me: I jump over tyhat crate and initiate grapple. Round 2: I pin. Round 3: I Coup De Grace! Hehehe. My grappler used to have a contingent Antimagicfield with him, so he could win by force most magic users, not to say all. Grapple is very tricky. If you make a good combination of abilities and feats, you can kick butt on a fight with several opponents (go for Power Attack!) and be a real killer in one-on-one fights. Not even a Spiked Chain user can ruin your day.
Orenmir 10-02-07, 12:52 PM	You should check if you can get Scorpion's Grasp, i think that's the name, from Sandstorm. It's basically improved grab :D I think you may be confusing Scorpion's Grasp with Improved Grapple. Improved Grapple is basically the same as Improved Grab. Scorpion's Grasp allows you to initiate a grapple with a melee weapon attack instead of the normal touch attack. If you're using a light weapon, you can then grapple with it. If it's not, then you drop the weapon. As a grappler, I'm not too crazy about this feat. Most of the time, a touch attack will be easier to succeed with. The difference between your opponents AC and touch AC is going to be more than your weapon's enhancement (usually). Missing the "grab" step in the grapple initiation is not a risk I'd like to take, just to see if I can apply a little more damage.
tafkamhokie 10-02-07, 01:11 PM	Improved Grapple is basically the same as Improved Grab. Not really. Not even close, actually. Improved Grab allows you to initiate a grapple as a free action after you have hit someone with a melee weapon, usually a natural weapon. Improved Grapple allows you to attempt to initiate a grapple without provoking an attack of opportunity and gives you +4 to your grapple check. With improved grab, the mechanic is melee attack - hit - deal natural weapon damage - make a grapple check. With Improved Grapple, the mechanic is melee touch attack - hit - make a grapple check at +4 - deal unarmed strike damage. The biggest difference being that with improved grab, you make your natural attack normally, and if it succeeds, you can try to grapple for free. With improved grapple, you forgo your normal attack in an attempt to grapple instead. But for the reasons you stated, I am not a huge fan of Improved Grab. A properly built grappler has a huge grapple bonus, but their melee attack roll is probably not spectacular. Much better to start the grapple with a touch attack than with a normal melee attack roll. You are much more likely to end the round with your opponent grappled and damaged using a conventional grapple attempt than you will trying to use Improved Grab. Case in point...I'm running a half-giant monk/psychic warrior grappler. His un-buffed grapple check is +16 at 5th level. I can buff it to +25 in one round. Very few appropriate-CR critters stand a chance against those grapple checks. But his attack bonus is only +9. I like my chances much better initiating touch attacks with that +9 bonus than trying to hit things conventionally.