Post/Author/DateTime	Post
StruckingFuggle 02-11-08, 05:51 PM	So ... you can ready a standard action on the trigger of "an (enemy) spellcaster begins to cast a spell". Greater Manyshot: "When you use the Manyshot feat, you can fire each arrow at a different target instead of firing all of them at the same target. You make a separate attack roll for each arrow, regardless of whether you fire them at separate targets or the same target. Your precision-based damage applies to each arrow fired, and, if you score a critical hit with more than one of the arrows, each critical hit deals critical damage." Manyshot is a standard action. Ergo, you can ready a Greater Manyshot for an enemy who begins to cast a spell. They begin to cast a spell, and you manyshot them, hitting twice. what happens next? Does the damage get added together to be the disruption, are there two disruptions, does only the first one 'count', or... what?
jaelis 02-11-08, 06:47 PM	Since you make a separate attack roll for each arrow, I'd rule them as separate distractions and you'd roll a concentration check for each. If it were regular manyshot, I'd lump the damage together for one roll.
dman11235 02-11-08, 08:10 PM	I think that it all counts for the DC. Since it is happening all at once. And as the magic overview (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#concentration) says, repeated damage is not continuos damage. However, it does not say what happens when multiple damage sources occur at the same time.
StruckingFuggle 02-11-08, 10:26 PM	You know, it occurs to me... There's a variant in CMage that lets rangers get 'Arcanists' as their Favored Enemy... ... and then the Occult Slayer PrC, at some level (4, I think, but frankly I can't be buggered to confirm it right now) allows you to deal double damage on an attack readied to disrupt a spellcaster... ... Put it together, and I think I taste a lot of pain. (feat-intensive pain, that sadly won't work with a Swift Hunter build because it's probably too feat-intensive, but still, pain.)
JamesMaissen 02-12-08, 03:29 AM	Ergo, you can ready a Greater Manyshot for an enemy who begins to cast a spell. They begin to cast a spell, and you manyshot them, hitting twice. what happens next? Does the damage get added together to be the disruption, are there two disruptions, does only the first one 'count', or... what? You hit them twice, there are two concentration checks.. just as much as if you and the person next to you had both readied actions against casting. This can work to your advantage or disadvantage depending on the numbers. As to a standard manyshot.. you wouldn't stack the entire damage against DR would you? If not then they are separate and concentration checks would be separate. -James
narack 02-12-08, 07:46 AM	What you seems to want is be able to crit on all arrow. Because you can already hit multiple enemy if you have multiple attacks. first if you readied you can only do 1 attack (see below) Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. Even if multiple people readied against him, the check is for each damage. but if you risk to make him fail his concentration check using a bow that mean he is low level and good chance are that he died from damage before the actual check :P
Lyndis 02-12-08, 10:24 AM	I was under the impression that if two people readied an action to disrupt a spellcaster the spellcaster's Concentration DC is the TOTAL damage done while he is trying to cast?
jaelis 02-12-08, 10:35 AM	I was under the impression that if two people readied an action to disrupt a spellcaster the spellcaster's Concentration DC is the TOTAL damage done while he is trying to cast? The rule doesn't seem very clear to me: If while trying to cast a spell you take damage, you must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + points of damage taken + the level of the spell you’re casting). and from the Concentration rules If more than one type of distraction is present, make a check for each one; I could read those either way, but it sounds a little more to me like separate sources of damage would lead to separate checks.
Rederik 02-12-08, 11:30 AM	If more than one type of distraction is present, make a check for each one; I understand multiple distractions as violent motion, weather, damage, etc... So, for this example, we have a Wiz casting a spell: He is on a ship that is rocking violently, a hurricane is blowing wind and rain like crazy, and he gets many shot in the face while trying to cast: Concentration check: DC 15 for the violent motion Concentration check: DC 5 For the weather Concentration check: DC 10+ (damage from all arrows) By doing this, you would lump all damage in to a "Damage Distraction"
Orenmir 02-12-08, 11:43 AM	... and then the Occult Slayer PrC, at some level (4, I think, but frankly I can't be buggered to confirm it right now) allows you to deal double damage on an attack readied to disrupt a spellcaster... Level 2 -- Vicious Strike. Unless the caster's Concentration check is sky high, he's destined to fail. Crit for overkill!
Merestil Haye 02-12-08, 11:46 AM	I think the best argument so far is the importance of consistency in the treatment of the arrows. Either they are separate sources of damage, or they are one source. If they are one source, then that's true for all things that affect sources of damage. If the target has DR, then you add the damage from all arrows together and apply DR once. If they are flaming arrows and the target has Fire Resistance, the flaming damage is added together and the Fire Resistance applied once. Do you really do that? Probably not. Most DMs would argue that, for the purposes of DR and energy resistance, the arrows are separate sources of damage. Then they are separate sources of damage for everything that cares about such things. Including Concentration checks.
jaelis 02-12-08, 12:48 PM	Well, by that reasoning, wouldn't you apply precision damage and critical hit damage separately? I think manyshot as written is already inconsistent that way, so when it comes to disrupting attacks, should you try to be consistent with DR or with how precision damage is applied?
dman11235 02-12-08, 03:50 PM	Manyshot explicitly says that DR and resistances are applied seperately to each arrow. But I would still say that it's one check, since precision damage is applied once, and they all hit at the same time. Same thing for greater, since they all hit at the same time.
StruckingFuggle 02-12-08, 04:49 PM	Manyshot explicitly says that DR and resistances are applied seperately to each arrow. But I would still say that it's one check, since precision damage is applied once, and they all hit at the same time. Same thing for greater, since they all hit at the same time. Not necessarily all the same thing, because with GMS, precision damage is applied for each arrow that hits.
dman11235 02-12-08, 06:17 PM	I was attempting to leave that out of the reasoning for GMS, but I guess I didn't comunicate very well. Basically I think the hit at the same time is reason to add the damage together.
Lyndis 02-12-08, 10:24 PM	I'm going to go with logic and rule in my games that all damage count as one source when disrupting spellcasters. Spellcasters could use a nerf anyways.
Bopple 02-13-08, 08:36 PM	It's not terribly useful because you have to be within 30'.
StruckingFuggle 02-13-08, 09:09 PM	It's not terribly useful because you have to be within 30'. For what? As far as I can tell, not for anything that's being discussed here...
Lyndis 02-13-08, 09:13 PM	Query: If a Scout moves 10 or more feet, and then readies an action (Greater Manyshot) to disrupt someone later, do the arrows do skirmish damage?
Bopple 02-13-08, 09:21 PM	For what? As far as I can tell, not for anything that's being discussed here... You have to be within 30' to use Manyshot or Gr. Manyshot.
jaelis 02-13-08, 09:25 PM	Query: If a Scout moves 10 or more feet, and then readies an action (Greater Manyshot) to disrupt someone later, do the arrows do skirmish damage? Seems like they would to me. You moved, you get the benefit.
Bopple 02-13-08, 09:32 PM	That depends on how you interpret your 'turn', because Skirmish only works on your turn. The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Emphasis mine. I can see it is arguable, though.
StruckingFuggle 02-14-08, 01:50 AM	You have to be within 30' to use Manyshot or Gr. Manyshot. ... Oh. So you do. Gragh. Somehow, all this time, I've missed that. How absurd.