Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jack of All Trades 09-08-07, 02:21 AM	Which is better for a +18/+17 gish build? Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Jovar (not sure what book its in right now but its a greatsword with an 18-20 crit range), Power Attack, and Improved Critical. or Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain, Combat Expertise, and Whirlwind Attack. Am I crazy? Is this really a tough choice?
Majick 09-08-07, 03:12 AM	We need a little bit more info man. What race, class, previous feats, the feel of the character. More is required :)
Fireclave 09-08-07, 03:19 AM	That's really not a lot of information to make an informed opinion. What are your classes, stats, race, other feats, and combat focus? What books do you have access to. And what does the rest of your party look like? Really, I say neither. If the Jovar is just a greatsword with 18-20 crit range, just use the Falchion instead. 1 point less damage on average, same crit range, and no need to waste a feat. And while Spiked Chain + Whirlwind Attack is a good combination, Whirlwind Attack is very feat intensive and its effectiveness is very situational and depends on the number and nature of the foes you will most commonly face. Besides that, if you are only considering the spiked chain for its reach and ability to attack adjacent squares, and don't plan on taking advantage of its other bonuses (+2 to trip and disarm, and the ability to apply Weapon Finesse), you could get the same benefit of reach with a longspear or similar reach weapon, armor spikes, and TWF at the cost of -2 to hit and the benefit of an additional attack each round. But of course, all of the above suggestion are made in a vacuum, without the benefit of knowing what else you have planned for your character.
Jack of All Trades 09-08-07, 10:25 AM	Okay here goes Fighter 1/Wizard 2/ Human Paragon 3/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 3/Knight Phantom 10 Also I'm using the Martial Wizard Variant allowing for a bonus feat instead of scribe scroll. And the DM is allowing us to take a flaw for a bonus feet. Wearing Light Armor, using haste, boots of spinging and striding, and tumbling through whatever else I'm having trouble with. Planning on lots of quickened true strikes, wraithstrikes, vampiric touching, oh yeah and enlarged person for the reach bonus.... Still Spell Combat Casting Improved Initiative Dodge Mobility Spring Attack Arcane Strike Quicken Spell Practiced Spellcaster As you can see I'm all ready planning on getting Spring Attack and I'm even thinking about getting bounding assault and rapid strike as well (of coarse some other feats may have to go. I'm just torn on whats the better value? The Spiked Chain Whirlwind attack and having combat expertise, or the Jovar/Falcion power attack Improved Crit combo.
lord_xarallon 09-08-07, 05:27 PM	Gishes are feat hungry builds and unless whirlwind all you gonna do (or at least a lot), then I would say it is a bad idea. And usually whirlwind is not good because of its limited benefit.
StevenO 09-08-07, 09:32 PM	For a weapon I'd go with the Spiked Chain but probably stay away from whirlwind but considering Improved Trip instead. Threatening with reach should make basing you very difficult.
Jack of All Trades 09-09-07, 12:47 PM	improved trip is pretty awesome, but is it really worth it? Can someone explain?
StevenO 09-09-07, 02:41 PM	As a caster one thing you don't want is the enemy standing next to you. With the Spiked Chain (SC) you have reach and can trip opponents who try getting to close with the AoO thus stopping them and giving you another attack on them because of Improved Trip. On your own turn you still have all your options available.