Hide and Darkvision [Archive] - Wizards Community

Hide and Darkvision [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GraveDigger
08-29-07, 03:27 AM Lets say a Dwarf makes a spot check for some on that is hiding with in 60' of him, and it is dark. Does the person hiding gain the bonuses to their hide from it being dark out even though the dwarf has Dark vision?
Kouk
08-29-07, 03:30 AM The lighting is not an issue to someone with Darkvision. If you are hiding in the dark purely because of concealment granted by the lighting, then you have no concealment against the Dwarf and are not hiding.

If you suspect Dwarves (or anything with Darkvision) then you should try to use Cover to Hide rather than relying on the darkness.

If you are hiding in the darkness beyond the range of the Darkvision, then you are fine though.
GraveDigger
08-29-07, 03:43 AM Thank you very much. (Goes to C&P this for his player.)
Dheran
08-29-07, 04:01 AM There's just one additional wrinkle that's worth pointing out here. A Shadowdancer or Assassin with the Supernatural (Su) form of Hide in Plain Sight can Hide near a shadow, and this works whether someone has darkvision or even if it's broad daylight.Hide in Plain Sight (Su)

A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow. Being Supernatural, this ability stops working in an Antimagic Field.
Amaril
08-29-07, 08:36 AM Under the rules for Vision And Light (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#visionAndLight):Characte rs with darkvision (dwarves and half-orcs) can see lit areas normally as well as dark areas within 60 feet. A creature can’t hide within 60 feet of a character with darkvision unless it is invisible or has cover.
tarkin
08-29-07, 10:25 AM There is some wrong information being implied here, in part due to poor wording in the SRD.

ALL Hiding requires a hiding spot. That can ONLY be done via partial cover. If you have concealment or total cover, then you are not hiding, you are simply not seen. A person in the other room is not 'hiding' from me, I simply can not see him because there is a wall in the way. Similarly, if someone is invisible, he is not hiding from me, he is simply not seen. Even if you are blurry from say a blur spell or shadowy light conditions, you still are NOT hiding.

Barring a prestige class ability or magic, you absolutely NEED a hiding spot.

You can not hide in an empty room no matter what. Even if it is dark with no light.

You might not be seen, because there is no light, but you are not hiding.
Amaril
08-29-07, 10:44 AM You can not hide in an empty room no matter what. Even if it is dark with no light.

You might not be seen, because there is no light, but you are not hiding.Incorrect. In the same entry for Vision and Light (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#visionAndLight), the rules state the following.In an area of shadowy illumination, a character can see dimly. Creatures within this area have concealment relative to that character. A creature in an area of shadowy illumination can make a Hide check to conceal itself.
sparkster4242
09-03-07, 10:17 PM according to PHB 3.5, p. 76, total cover or total concealment usually, but not always, obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway - in other words, you can still make the check, it just usually wont matter.

also, the glossary on PHB 3.5, p. 309 defines 'invisible' as 'visually undetectable'. any creature with full concealment meets this criterion. [see PHB 3.5, p. 152]

additionally, according to PHB 3.5, p. 76, being invisible grants either a +20 or +40 bonus to Hide checks, depending on movement - which again implies that hiding is still possible with full concealment, even if it wouldnt usually be necessary.
Egres
09-04-07, 03:10 AM The "Combat in the Dark" sidebar in Tome of Magic states (referring to the ability of Shadowdancers, Assassins, and the like):

In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly. A creature can't use Hide in an area of bright light unless it is invisible, has cover, or has the Hide in Plain Sight ability.

Characters who have darkvision (dwarves and half-orcs) can see lit areas normally as well as dark areas within 60 feet. A creature can't use Hide within 60 feet of a character who has darkvision unless it is invisible, has cover, or has the Hide in Plain Sight ability.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GraveDigger 08-29-07, 03:27 AM	Lets say a Dwarf makes a spot check for some on that is hiding with in 60' of him, and it is dark. Does the person hiding gain the bonuses to their hide from it being dark out even though the dwarf has Dark vision?
Kouk 08-29-07, 03:30 AM	The lighting is not an issue to someone with Darkvision. If you are hiding in the dark purely because of concealment granted by the lighting, then you have no concealment against the Dwarf and are not hiding. If you suspect Dwarves (or anything with Darkvision) then you should try to use Cover to Hide rather than relying on the darkness. If you are hiding in the darkness beyond the range of the Darkvision, then you are fine though.
GraveDigger 08-29-07, 03:43 AM	Thank you very much. (Goes to C&P this for his player.)
Dheran 08-29-07, 04:01 AM	There's just one additional wrinkle that's worth pointing out here. A Shadowdancer or Assassin with the Supernatural (Su) form of Hide in Plain Sight can Hide near a shadow, and this works whether someone has darkvision or even if it's broad daylight.Hide in Plain Sight (Su) A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow. Being Supernatural, this ability stops working in an Antimagic Field.
Amaril 08-29-07, 08:36 AM	Under the rules for Vision And Light (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#visionAndLight):Characte rs with darkvision (dwarves and half-orcs) can see lit areas normally as well as dark areas within 60 feet. A creature can’t hide within 60 feet of a character with darkvision unless it is invisible or has cover.
tarkin 08-29-07, 10:25 AM	There is some wrong information being implied here, in part due to poor wording in the SRD. ALL Hiding requires a hiding spot. That can ONLY be done via partial cover. If you have concealment or total cover, then you are not hiding, you are simply not seen. A person in the other room is not 'hiding' from me, I simply can not see him because there is a wall in the way. Similarly, if someone is invisible, he is not hiding from me, he is simply not seen. Even if you are blurry from say a blur spell or shadowy light conditions, you still are NOT hiding. Barring a prestige class ability or magic, you absolutely NEED a hiding spot. You can not hide in an empty room no matter what. Even if it is dark with no light. You might not be seen, because there is no light, but you are not hiding.
Amaril 08-29-07, 10:44 AM	You can not hide in an empty room no matter what. Even if it is dark with no light. You might not be seen, because there is no light, but you are not hiding.Incorrect. In the same entry for Vision and Light (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#visionAndLight), the rules state the following.In an area of shadowy illumination, a character can see dimly. Creatures within this area have concealment relative to that character. A creature in an area of shadowy illumination can make a Hide check to conceal itself.
sparkster4242 09-03-07, 10:17 PM	according to PHB 3.5, p. 76, total cover or total concealment usually, but not always, obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway - in other words, you can still make the check, it just usually wont matter. also, the glossary on PHB 3.5, p. 309 defines 'invisible' as 'visually undetectable'. any creature with full concealment meets this criterion. [see PHB 3.5, p. 152] additionally, according to PHB 3.5, p. 76, being invisible grants either a +20 or +40 bonus to Hide checks, depending on movement - which again implies that hiding is still possible with full concealment, even if it wouldnt usually be necessary.
Egres 09-04-07, 03:10 AM	The "Combat in the Dark" sidebar in Tome of Magic states (referring to the ability of Shadowdancers, Assassins, and the like): In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly. A creature can't use Hide in an area of bright light unless it is invisible, has cover, or has the Hide in Plain Sight ability. Characters who have darkvision (dwarves and half-orcs) can see lit areas normally as well as dark areas within 60 feet. A creature can't use Hide within 60 feet of a character who has darkvision unless it is invisible, has cover, or has the Hide in Plain Sight ability.