Highten Spell? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Highten Spell? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ShatteredSun
05-28-07, 11:17 PM How on earth does Highten Spell work? I don't see any limitations in the description in the PHB. How often can it be used and to what level are spells 'hightened'?
Karak_Nechot
05-28-07, 11:23 PM You can heighten a spell up to the slot that you cast it at. So, say you have fireball, a 3rd level spell, and you have 6th level slots available, you can heighten it up to 6th level, or anywhere in between. The spell then operates as a spell of the level you heighten it to, and takes up a spells slot of that level.

You can use Heighten Spell as often as you want, just preparation spell casters have to do it ahead of time and it takes up higher slots, effectively making you lose higher level spells, and spontaneous casters (usually) have to take a full-round action as well as use a higher level spell slot.
tarkin
05-29-07, 12:48 PM (note, corrected as Puca pointed out an error)

Also, it is a real adjustment, not a fake one that can be folded into other metamagics. It should be done first before other metamagics, to make it easier to understand.

That is, if you empower a fireball and also heighten it +1 levels, it looks like this:

Caster level: 11
Base fireball: 3rd level spell slot, saves as 3rd level, does 10d6
Heightened +1: 4th level spell slot, saves as 4th level, does 10d6
Empowered: 6th level spell slot, saves as 4th level slot, but does 10d6x1.5 damage.
Puca
05-29-07, 12:54 PM ..
Mark_Constantino
05-29-07, 03:58 PM (note, corrected as Puca pointed out an error)

Also, it is a real adjustment, not a fake one that can be folded into other metamagics. It should be done first before other metamagics, to make it easier to understand.

That is, if you empower a fireball and also heighten it +1 levels, it looks like this:

Caster level: 11
Base fireball: 3rd level spell slot, saves as 3rd level, does 10d6
Heightened +1: 4th level spell slot, saves as 4th level, does 10d6
Empowered: 6th level spell slot, saves as 4th level slot, but does 10d6x1.5 damage.

Why doesn't it work this way: empowered fireball takes up 5th level spell slot so you can heighten at the same time to 5th level spell, raising the DC of save by 2. Your way makes it a 7th level spell. My way makes the feat much more useful.
HappyGhoul
05-29-07, 04:33 PM Making it disallow a save completely makes it even more useful. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Heighten, and other metamagic feats, are useful as is. You don't need to make them both significantly more powerful.
Puca
05-29-07, 04:52 PM Also, you are stacking metamagic. If you Maximized (+3) an Empowered (+2) a Fireball, it would use an eighth-level slot. Not a sixth.

Why would Heighten not work the same exact way?
If you Heighten it three levels and Empower it, it takes up an eighth-level slot.
Pentar
05-29-07, 05:21 PM Also, you are stacking metamagic. If you Maximized (+3) an Empowered (+2) a Fireball, it would use an eighth-level slot. Not a sixth.

Why would Heighten not work the same exact way?
If you Heighten it three levels and Empower it, it takes up an eighth-level slot.

I've heard this argument before; effectively, many seem to feel that the Heightened spell feat is not useful enough by itself so would like to find ways to combine it with other Metamagic feats to increase its desirability.

Admittedly, I've never had a character with Heighten spell, but I wouldn't discount the ability to cast spells at a Higher caster level as being bad. Increased save DCs can be deadly for certain spells.
Puca
05-29-07, 06:10 PM Ive made use of it with casters who routinely use save-or-dies, enchanters, illusionists. Anyone who needs a high DC should have Heighten Spell.
sparkster4242
06-06-07, 04:08 AM mark:
not only more useful, but almost as useful as a real spell would be.

here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=316552) is the big debate on the issue. careful, its a big one.

puca:
it doesnt work the same way, because Heighten's requirement for a higher-level slot is written differently than every other metamagic feat. take a look at the big debate if yer really interested.
Kouk
06-06-07, 05:02 AM Also, you are stacking metamagic. If you Maximized (+3) an Empowered (+2) a Fireball, it would use an eighth-level slot. Not a sixth.

Why would Heighten not work the same exact way?
If you Heighten it three levels and Empower it, it takes up an eighth-level slot.

I'm pretty sure it does work this way.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ShatteredSun 05-28-07, 11:17 PM	How on earth does Highten Spell work? I don't see any limitations in the description in the PHB. How often can it be used and to what level are spells 'hightened'?
Karak_Nechot 05-28-07, 11:23 PM	You can heighten a spell up to the slot that you cast it at. So, say you have fireball, a 3rd level spell, and you have 6th level slots available, you can heighten it up to 6th level, or anywhere in between. The spell then operates as a spell of the level you heighten it to, and takes up a spells slot of that level. You can use Heighten Spell as often as you want, just preparation spell casters have to do it ahead of time and it takes up higher slots, effectively making you lose higher level spells, and spontaneous casters (usually) have to take a full-round action as well as use a higher level spell slot.
tarkin 05-29-07, 12:48 PM	(note, corrected as Puca pointed out an error) Also, it is a real adjustment, not a fake one that can be folded into other metamagics. It should be done first before other metamagics, to make it easier to understand. That is, if you empower a fireball and also heighten it +1 levels, it looks like this: Caster level: 11 Base fireball: 3rd level spell slot, saves as 3rd level, does 10d6 Heightened +1: 4th level spell slot, saves as 4th level, does 10d6 Empowered: 6th level spell slot, saves as 4th level slot, but does 10d6x1.5 damage.
Puca 05-29-07, 12:54 PM	..
Mark_Constantino 05-29-07, 03:58 PM	(note, corrected as Puca pointed out an error) Also, it is a real adjustment, not a fake one that can be folded into other metamagics. It should be done first before other metamagics, to make it easier to understand. That is, if you empower a fireball and also heighten it +1 levels, it looks like this: Caster level: 11 Base fireball: 3rd level spell slot, saves as 3rd level, does 10d6 Heightened +1: 4th level spell slot, saves as 4th level, does 10d6 Empowered: 6th level spell slot, saves as 4th level slot, but does 10d6x1.5 damage. Why doesn't it work this way: empowered fireball takes up 5th level spell slot so you can heighten at the same time to 5th level spell, raising the DC of save by 2. Your way makes it a 7th level spell. My way makes the feat much more useful.
HappyGhoul 05-29-07, 04:33 PM	Making it disallow a save completely makes it even more useful. That doesn't mean it's a good idea. Heighten, and other metamagic feats, are useful as is. You don't need to make them both significantly more powerful.
Puca 05-29-07, 04:52 PM	Also, you are stacking metamagic. If you Maximized (+3) an Empowered (+2) a Fireball, it would use an eighth-level slot. Not a sixth. Why would Heighten not work the same exact way? If you Heighten it three levels and Empower it, it takes up an eighth-level slot.
Pentar 05-29-07, 05:21 PM	Also, you are stacking metamagic. If you Maximized (+3) an Empowered (+2) a Fireball, it would use an eighth-level slot. Not a sixth. Why would Heighten not work the same exact way? If you Heighten it three levels and Empower it, it takes up an eighth-level slot. I've heard this argument before; effectively, many seem to feel that the Heightened spell feat is not useful enough by itself so would like to find ways to combine it with other Metamagic feats to increase its desirability. Admittedly, I've never had a character with Heighten spell, but I wouldn't discount the ability to cast spells at a Higher caster level as being bad. Increased save DCs can be deadly for certain spells.
Puca 05-29-07, 06:10 PM	Ive made use of it with casters who routinely use save-or-dies, enchanters, illusionists. Anyone who needs a high DC should have Heighten Spell.
sparkster4242 06-06-07, 04:08 AM	mark: not only more useful, but almost as useful as a real spell would be. here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=316552) is the big debate on the issue. careful, its a big one. puca: it doesnt work the same way, because Heighten's requirement for a higher-level slot is written differently than every other metamagic feat. take a look at the big debate if yer really interested.
Kouk 06-06-07, 05:02 AM	Also, you are stacking metamagic. If you Maximized (+3) an Empowered (+2) a Fireball, it would use an eighth-level slot. Not a sixth. Why would Heighten not work the same exact way? If you Heighten it three levels and Empower it, it takes up an eighth-level slot. I'm pretty sure it does work this way.