How do I play a good Cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How do I play a good Cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jamesruglia21
08-14-07, 01:53 AM This is my friend's question, but frankly I don't know much about it myself ><" This sounds like a "Classes" section question, but the focus of it is on feats, so I wan't really sure if it should've gone there or in here.

I want to play Cleric because I like healing and I like the "flavor" of the class and all, but I really don't know how to go about doing it all that well. I look at all the feats and skills and stuff and I just end up picking a bunch of counter-productive stuff.

First of all, I'm kind of wierd on one thing(well, a few things but this one seems most relevant): I don't want to wear heavy armor << >> It isn't, um... Feminine, and my strength isn't ideal so I don't want to have to carry plate armor and stuff. I want to/suppose I should stay more in the middle ranks so I'm up close enough to do the healing but far enough back to be safer. I've considered taking some Wizard levels to help enforce a "back row" position, but I'm worried that what I gain in Arcane Magic might take from my more moderate upper-lines survivability, and the focus I'd lose in Divine spells.

But like, I have Sacred Healing and Sacred Purification in mind, but I don't know if 1d8+2 or 3 is all that much for Purification, and without it I'd probably might as well take Augment Healing over Sacred Healing to save my turning attempts for other Divine feats I might want-especially if I take Divine Metamagic.

Or like there was this feat that extended the range of touch spells, but I don't know if I want to do that with the Mass versions of those spells in existence(And this would run counter-productive to Sacred Purification wouldn't it?). I thought about Metamagic feats, but I don't know much about what kinds I should take... Quicken Spell sounds good since I could give a free action cure and then use another spell or do something else... And there's Divine Metamagic, but I heard that one's sometimes "too" useful(And I want to avoid that, though I probably would never catch on how to abuse it...)

I thought about taking a potion or scroll making feat, but I don't know about giving a lot of xp., and selling them might be redundant because I already have Profession (Cook) and Perform(Sing) ^^"

I played Baldur's Gate before, but I was a Cleric/Magic and mostly just spammed Magic Missile, Fireball, and Cure Light Wounds. Then I cheated through. So I feel kind of lost and overwhelmed @.@
claypigeons
08-14-07, 02:23 AM Go for the Cloistered Cleric variant out of Unearthed Arcana.

They lose Heavy and Medium armour as well as shields, and their HD drops to 6. You will have the "poor" BAB, but you won't want to fight anyway, so it's not a problem.

They gain Bardic Knowledge as well a bunch more skill points per level (from 2 to a whopping 6).

As for actually healing... It depends on what books you have. For Feats take Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus Conjuration, as well as the Healing Domain (+3 points healed per spell). If Complete Divine is available (you mentioned Sacred Healing...) take Augment Healing.

Sacred Healing sucks, don't bother. Where might I find Sacred Purification?

You also mention Arcane Magic... Don't multiclass out of cleric unless it's to take a Divine Casting PrC. If you want useful magic, you can't dabble, you have to commit fully.
Jamesruglia21
08-14-07, 03:01 AM Thanks for the reply!

Doesn't Spell Focus only effect the spell's DC? How would increasing the DC to resist the spell help a healing spell?

Sacred Purification is in the "Player's Handbook II".

I have what you said about spell commitment in mind and am leaning toward it, but I had the stray thought of giving Sorcerer a better chance than Wizard, since I already have decent Charisma.

And this is entirely unrelated at all to my question, but... What's the point of getting a Tent? "A simple tent that sleeps two.". Well, it costs as much as 20 bedrolls and is four time sthe weight o.o But the idea of a tent rather than sleeping outside on rolls is nice...
claypigeons
08-14-07, 04:15 AM Doesn't Spell Focus only effect the spell's DC? How would increasing the DC to resist the spell help a healing spell?

You're of course correct. I apparently need less caffiene and more sleep.

Sacred Purification is in the "Player's Handbook II".

Alright... Had a look... And I really don't see the need for it. I wouldn't take it. First, if you're in such a dire situation that 1d8+cha bonus HP will be needed, then you're pretty screwed anyway. Secondly, if 1d8+cha can do significant damage to the undead around, use the turn attempt and let your mace do the talking.

I have what you said about spell commitment in mind and am leaning toward it, but I had the stray thought of giving Sorcerer a better chance than Wizard, since I already have decent Charisma.

Theurges are really horrible. They lose out on higher level spells, and have a lower caster (though that can be made up with feats. But I think it's better to use the feat on making you better, not on making you suck a little less). Just stick with cleric and maybe PrC into Radiant Servant.

Seriously though, don't waste your time trying to advance two casting classes. It only ends horribly. If you want some Arcane magic, grab some cross class ranks in Use Magic Device.

And this is entirely unrelated at all to my question, but... What's the point of getting a Tent? "A simple tent that sleeps two.". Well, it costs as much as 20 bedrolls and is four time sthe weight o.o But the idea of a tent rather than sleeping outside on rolls is nice...

I have no idea. One of those items that is tossed in there for completeness I guess... I suppose it's good for keeping you drier if it rains... But you're still on the ground, so it doesn't matter than much.
Orchomenos
08-14-07, 03:11 PM Get the Magic domain, so you can use arcane spell completion or spell trigger items. Then gets a wand or a few scrolls of Spectral Hand (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsS.html#spectral-hand). Any spell you cast with a range of Touch can be done with this spectral hand.
Since you're using it on your allies, you don't need an attack roll. (At least, if they know you're using this trick. If an adventurer sees a Spectral Hand beside him, he will likely attack the thing!)
Jamesruglia21
08-14-07, 03:39 PM You've been very helpful ^^ I'm starting to get an idea of what I want to/should do now...

I'll have to pick between Cloistered and normal, but I like making tough choices. On the one hand, the lesser combat training is more "in-character" for me. On the other, being smart isn't:embarrass but skills are fun.

Spectral Hand... Never knew about that spell o.o

I have two more questions though.

1. "Spontaneous Casting". Well, I can turn any prepared spell into a "Cure" spell of equal level, and I can even use metamagic on it. So is there any reason at all that I should ever prepare (non-domain)Cure spells?

2. Arcane/Nobility Knowledge synergy. If it takes 5 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana/Nobility) to gains a +2 bonus to Spellcraft/Diplomacy, wouldn't it be better to just gain +5 in those by applying direct skill points? I assume knowledge symmetry is good for Wizards who don't have natural class affinity for Diplomacy and Survival and stuff, but in this case I'm better off getting the specific skill right?
JulesCARV
08-14-07, 03:47 PM Well, if you already have maximum ranks in diplomacy or spellcraft, then you can't apply your skill points there, so if you're determined to boost them, getting five ranks in the relevant synergies is the way to go.

If you don't like armor, consider a monk's belt.
claypigeons
08-14-07, 03:54 PM I'll have to pick between Cloistered and normal, but I like making tough choices. On the one hand, the lesser combat training is more "in-character" for me. On the other, being smart isn't:embarrass but skills are fun.

Knowledgeable =/= smart.

If you're still running around with a 10 in intelligence, you're not smart. Bardic Knowledge and a few more skill points means that you're better are some things, and you've picked up a lot trivia.

Just a thought on the roleplay aspect of it...
Jamesruglia21
08-14-07, 04:32 PM I see, I see...

Well then, thank you everyone!
Lucas Blackstone
08-14-07, 05:47 PM Divine Ward could help you out some I imagine. It's in PHB2. The basics of it is you set up a connection between you and someone else ( using a turning/rebuke attempt ) and then throughout the day for each turning attempt you use you can cast a touch spell on said target at short ( 25ft +5ft 2/levels).
willwrk4internet
08-14-07, 08:34 PM There are two versions of the Sacred healing feat. I personally like the Complete Divine version better.
InkBlot
08-14-07, 09:22 PM 1. "Spontaneous Casting". Well, I can turn any prepared spell into a "Cure" spell of equal level, and I can even use metamagic on it. So is there any reason at all that I should ever prepare (non-domain)Cure spells?
Generally, no, you shouldn't prepare any cure x wounds spells. The only reason you might want to do so is for the sake of using metamagic feats. If you try to use a metamagic feat with a spontaneously cast cure x wounds spell, then the casting time of that spell will increase to 1 full round action.
Chris Sims
08-14-07, 10:01 PM Get the Magic domain, so you can use arcane spell completion or spell trigger items. Then gets a wand or a few scrolls of Spectral Hand (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsS.html#spectral-hand). Any spell you cast with a range of Touch can be done with this spectral hand. The wand is way better for this scheme, even if it has only a few charges. :D

Cloistered cleric is very good, and fun for someone who wants a more priestlike and less knightlike cleric.

If you're playing an Eberron campaign, or are allowed to use feats in the Eberron Campaign Setting, here's a little trick that was fun, if not totally optimal, for me. Take the god Dol Dorn (Heironeous in core D&D) and the War domain (take Martial Weapon Proficiency [longsword], Weapon Focus [longsword]). Sacrifice a little spell capacity for 1 level of monk (+Wis bonus to AC is good for a cloistered cleric that doesn’t want to wear light armor), then grab Whirling Steel Strike from Eberron Campaign Setting (p 62) as soon as you can. You'll be quite capable in melee combat, despite some lack of Strength. Consider also monk fighting styles in Unearthed Arcana (p 52), such as Cobra Strike (for Dodge) or Passive Way (for Bluff and Combat Expertise).

As for skills and synergy, you're better off putting skill points into Diplomacy and Spellcraft if those skills are what you want your character to be able to do. With a cloistered cleric’s skill points, you might be able to pull of some synergy anyway, getting an even bigger bonus.
Adriannaruglia
08-15-07, 02:14 AM Oooh, a staff member :3

And I'll stop hijacking my friend's account now >.>

Well then, I think I'm set ^^ I want to ask about mixing the Cleric into a sort of "middleground" between normal and Coistered variety, but I'll go make a topic in the appropriate place for it.

_(._.)_

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jamesruglia21 08-14-07, 01:53 AM	This is my friend's question, but frankly I don't know much about it myself ><" This sounds like a "Classes" section question, but the focus of it is on feats, so I wan't really sure if it should've gone there or in here. I want to play Cleric because I like healing and I like the "flavor" of the class and all, but I really don't know how to go about doing it all that well. I look at all the feats and skills and stuff and I just end up picking a bunch of counter-productive stuff. First of all, I'm kind of wierd on one thing(well, a few things but this one seems most relevant): I don't want to wear heavy armor << >> It isn't, um... Feminine, and my strength isn't ideal so I don't want to have to carry plate armor and stuff. I want to/suppose I should stay more in the middle ranks so I'm up close enough to do the healing but far enough back to be safer. I've considered taking some Wizard levels to help enforce a "back row" position, but I'm worried that what I gain in Arcane Magic might take from my more moderate upper-lines survivability, and the focus I'd lose in Divine spells. But like, I have Sacred Healing and Sacred Purification in mind, but I don't know if 1d8+2 or 3 is all that much for Purification, and without it I'd probably might as well take Augment Healing over Sacred Healing to save my turning attempts for other Divine feats I might want-especially if I take Divine Metamagic. Or like there was this feat that extended the range of touch spells, but I don't know if I want to do that with the Mass versions of those spells in existence(And this would run counter-productive to Sacred Purification wouldn't it?). I thought about Metamagic feats, but I don't know much about what kinds I should take... Quicken Spell sounds good since I could give a free action cure and then use another spell or do something else... And there's Divine Metamagic, but I heard that one's sometimes "too" useful(And I want to avoid that, though I probably would never catch on how to abuse it...) I thought about taking a potion or scroll making feat, but I don't know about giving a lot of xp., and selling them might be redundant because I already have Profession (Cook) and Perform(Sing) ^^" I played Baldur's Gate before, but I was a Cleric/Magic and mostly just spammed Magic Missile, Fireball, and Cure Light Wounds. Then I cheated through. So I feel kind of lost and overwhelmed @.@
claypigeons 08-14-07, 02:23 AM	Go for the Cloistered Cleric variant out of Unearthed Arcana. They lose Heavy and Medium armour as well as shields, and their HD drops to 6. You will have the "poor" BAB, but you won't want to fight anyway, so it's not a problem. They gain Bardic Knowledge as well a bunch more skill points per level (from 2 to a whopping 6). As for actually healing... It depends on what books you have. For Feats take Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus Conjuration, as well as the Healing Domain (+3 points healed per spell). If Complete Divine is available (you mentioned Sacred Healing...) take Augment Healing. Sacred Healing sucks, don't bother. Where might I find Sacred Purification? You also mention Arcane Magic... Don't multiclass out of cleric unless it's to take a Divine Casting PrC. If you want useful magic, you can't dabble, you have to commit fully.
Jamesruglia21 08-14-07, 03:01 AM	Thanks for the reply! Doesn't Spell Focus only effect the spell's DC? How would increasing the DC to resist the spell help a healing spell? Sacred Purification is in the "Player's Handbook II". I have what you said about spell commitment in mind and am leaning toward it, but I had the stray thought of giving Sorcerer a better chance than Wizard, since I already have decent Charisma. And this is entirely unrelated at all to my question, but... What's the point of getting a Tent? "A simple tent that sleeps two.". Well, it costs as much as 20 bedrolls and is four time sthe weight o.o But the idea of a tent rather than sleeping outside on rolls is nice...
claypigeons 08-14-07, 04:15 AM	Doesn't Spell Focus only effect the spell's DC? How would increasing the DC to resist the spell help a healing spell? You're of course correct. I apparently need less caffiene and more sleep. Sacred Purification is in the "Player's Handbook II". Alright... Had a look... And I really don't see the need for it. I wouldn't take it. First, if you're in such a dire situation that 1d8+cha bonus HP will be needed, then you're pretty screwed anyway. Secondly, if 1d8+cha can do significant damage to the undead around, use the turn attempt and let your mace do the talking. I have what you said about spell commitment in mind and am leaning toward it, but I had the stray thought of giving Sorcerer a better chance than Wizard, since I already have decent Charisma. Theurges are really horrible. They lose out on higher level spells, and have a lower caster (though that can be made up with feats. But I think it's better to use the feat on making you better, not on making you suck a little less). Just stick with cleric and maybe PrC into Radiant Servant. Seriously though, don't waste your time trying to advance two casting classes. It only ends horribly. If you want some Arcane magic, grab some cross class ranks in Use Magic Device. And this is entirely unrelated at all to my question, but... What's the point of getting a Tent? "A simple tent that sleeps two.". Well, it costs as much as 20 bedrolls and is four time sthe weight o.o But the idea of a tent rather than sleeping outside on rolls is nice... I have no idea. One of those items that is tossed in there for completeness I guess... I suppose it's good for keeping you drier if it rains... But you're still on the ground, so it doesn't matter than much.
Orchomenos 08-14-07, 03:11 PM	Get the Magic domain, so you can use arcane spell completion or spell trigger items. Then gets a wand or a few scrolls of Spectral Hand (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsS.html#spectral-hand). Any spell you cast with a range of Touch can be done with this spectral hand. Since you're using it on your allies, you don't need an attack roll. (At least, if they know you're using this trick. If an adventurer sees a Spectral Hand beside him, he will likely attack the thing!)
Jamesruglia21 08-14-07, 03:39 PM	You've been very helpful ^^ I'm starting to get an idea of what I want to/should do now... I'll have to pick between Cloistered and normal, but I like making tough choices. On the one hand, the lesser combat training is more "in-character" for me. On the other, being smart isn't:embarrass but skills are fun. Spectral Hand... Never knew about that spell o.o I have two more questions though. 1. "Spontaneous Casting". Well, I can turn any prepared spell into a "Cure" spell of equal level, and I can even use metamagic on it. So is there any reason at all that I should ever prepare (non-domain)Cure spells? 2. Arcane/Nobility Knowledge synergy. If it takes 5 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana/Nobility) to gains a +2 bonus to Spellcraft/Diplomacy, wouldn't it be better to just gain +5 in those by applying direct skill points? I assume knowledge symmetry is good for Wizards who don't have natural class affinity for Diplomacy and Survival and stuff, but in this case I'm better off getting the specific skill right?
JulesCARV 08-14-07, 03:47 PM	Well, if you already have maximum ranks in diplomacy or spellcraft, then you can't apply your skill points there, so if you're determined to boost them, getting five ranks in the relevant synergies is the way to go. If you don't like armor, consider a monk's belt.
claypigeons 08-14-07, 03:54 PM	I'll have to pick between Cloistered and normal, but I like making tough choices. On the one hand, the lesser combat training is more "in-character" for me. On the other, being smart isn't:embarrass but skills are fun. Knowledgeable =/= smart. If you're still running around with a 10 in intelligence, you're not smart. Bardic Knowledge and a few more skill points means that you're better are some things, and you've picked up a lot trivia. Just a thought on the roleplay aspect of it...
Jamesruglia21 08-14-07, 04:32 PM	I see, I see... Well then, thank you everyone!
Lucas Blackstone 08-14-07, 05:47 PM	Divine Ward could help you out some I imagine. It's in PHB2. The basics of it is you set up a connection between you and someone else ( using a turning/rebuke attempt ) and then throughout the day for each turning attempt you use you can cast a touch spell on said target at short ( 25ft +5ft 2/levels).
willwrk4internet 08-14-07, 08:34 PM	There are two versions of the Sacred healing feat. I personally like the Complete Divine version better.
InkBlot 08-14-07, 09:22 PM	1. "Spontaneous Casting". Well, I can turn any prepared spell into a "Cure" spell of equal level, and I can even use metamagic on it. So is there any reason at all that I should ever prepare (non-domain)Cure spells? Generally, no, you shouldn't prepare any cure x wounds spells. The only reason you might want to do so is for the sake of using metamagic feats. If you try to use a metamagic feat with a spontaneously cast cure x wounds spell, then the casting time of that spell will increase to 1 full round action.
Chris Sims 08-14-07, 10:01 PM	Get the Magic domain, so you can use arcane spell completion or spell trigger items. Then gets a wand or a few scrolls of Spectral Hand (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/spellsS.html#spectral-hand). Any spell you cast with a range of Touch can be done with this spectral hand. The wand is way better for this scheme, even if it has only a few charges. :D Cloistered cleric is very good, and fun for someone who wants a more priestlike and less knightlike cleric. If you're playing an Eberron campaign, or are allowed to use feats in the Eberron Campaign Setting, here's a little trick that was fun, if not totally optimal, for me. Take the god Dol Dorn (Heironeous in core D&D) and the War domain (take Martial Weapon Proficiency [longsword], Weapon Focus [longsword]). Sacrifice a little spell capacity for 1 level of monk (+Wis bonus to AC is good for a cloistered cleric that doesn’t want to wear light armor), then grab Whirling Steel Strike from Eberron Campaign Setting (p 62) as soon as you can. You'll be quite capable in melee combat, despite some lack of Strength. Consider also monk fighting styles in Unearthed Arcana (p 52), such as Cobra Strike (for Dodge) or Passive Way (for Bluff and Combat Expertise). As for skills and synergy, you're better off putting skill points into Diplomacy and Spellcraft if those skills are what you want your character to be able to do. With a cloistered cleric’s skill points, you might be able to pull of some synergy anyway, getting an even bigger bonus.
Adriannaruglia 08-15-07, 02:14 AM	Oooh, a staff member :3 And I'll stop hijacking my friend's account now >.> Well then, I think I'm set ^^ I want to ask about mixing the Cleric into a sort of "middleground" between normal and Coistered variety, but I'll go make a topic in the appropriate place for it. _(._.)_