How good is Spellcasting Prodigy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How good is Spellcasting Prodigy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FrostHammer
11-15-07, 11:56 PM What's all of the differences between the 3.0 and 3.5 version of the feat? If I'm using the 3.0 version, is it a powerful enough feat for virtually every spellcaster to want to take it? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it for a Druid.
strenoth
11-16-07, 01:44 AM the difference if I Recall corrrectly is the 3.0 one grants bonus spells, and the 3.5 version does not. 3.0 one is pretty close to being a must-have feat
Gnarl
11-16-07, 04:19 AM I thought it was 3.0 version grants bonus spell and increased DC and 3.5 only grants bonus spell.

The 3.5 version is nearly worthless imho.
FrostHammer
11-16-07, 10:13 AM It's basically Extra Spell Slot that scales?
The_Shaman
11-16-07, 10:41 AM And +1 to DC, which iirc was kinda like 1/2 spell focus (anything). Now it's just a SF (anything) which doesn't count for prerequisites.

Edit: sorry, my mistake.
imakuni67
11-16-07, 10:43 AM It's basically Extra Spell Slot that scales?

And how is that a bad thing?
Scion of Coldshard
11-16-07, 03:52 PM It doesnt really scale.. it kindof shifts along and might give you a bonus spell or not, and even if it does it wont necessarily be of much use since it could wind up being too low to matter.

I believe it is an effective +2 to your stat for bonus spells, which means taking the feat at first level will do nothing for you unless your prime stat is 18 or 19.. or very high numbers, but those are less likely to happen I would think.

When you actually might have to think twice about increasing your prime stat because it might make one of your feats worthless for awhile that seems like a good indicator of it being a poorly thought out feat...
imakuni67
11-16-07, 04:25 PM Between 18 and 20 though you'll get a bonus 1st and a bonus 5th level spell, which the feat would give you. Even if you are level 20, an extra cone of cold is still welcomed if you asked me, and that extra magic missle is nice too.

And in a way it does scale, since you are likely to increase your key spellcasting stat every 4 levels.

Let's say you got lucky and got an 18 in your stat and increase that 5 times, and take spellcasting prodigy. You'll have an extra 7th and 3rd level spell compared to someone who didn't take the feat. How wouldn't love an extra finger of death?
Gnarl
11-16-07, 06:03 PM Between 18 and 20 though you'll get a bonus 1st and a bonus 5th level spell, which the feat would give you. Even if you are level 20, an extra cone of cold is still welcomed if you asked me, and that extra magic missle is nice too.

And in a way it does scale, since you are likely to increase your key spellcasting stat every 4 levels.

Let's say you got lucky and got an 18 in your stat and increase that 5 times, and take spellcasting prodigy. You'll have an extra 7th and 3rd level spell compared to someone who didn't take the feat. How wouldn't love an extra finger of death?

Sure it's appealing to have an extra spell but you have better things to do with those precious feats especially since you're paying the price at level 1.
Jaxgaret
11-16-07, 07:41 PM 3.0 SP = Awesome feat

3.5 SP = Terrible feat

Fin
FrostHammer
11-16-07, 09:02 PM So just by adding the +1 DC, it becomes an awesome feat?
runestar
11-16-07, 09:31 PM The 3.5 version is still a fairly strong feat. It has its breakpoints (in that you will benefit more at certain lvs, and less so or even not at all in other lvs), but overall well worth a feat slot, IMO.:)
Jaxgaret
11-17-07, 02:24 AM So just by adding the +1 DC, it becomes an awesome feat?

Yeah, pretty much.

+1 DC to all spells, regardless of school, is very nice. Think about it - to get the same effect one must take 8 (9 if you include a theoretical SF:Universal feat) Spell Focus feats. It's not worth 8 feats, of course, because each caster tends to cast spells of certain schools more often than others, but it is very strong. 3.0 SP is definitely worth multiple feats, even without the bonus spells.

3.5 SP is not the worst feat in the world, but there are so many better choices.
navar100
11-17-07, 10:22 AM Yeah, pretty much.

+1 DC to all spells, regardless of school, is very nice. Think about it - to get the same effect one must take 8 (9 if you include a theoretical SF:Universal feat) Spell Focus feats. It's not worth 8 feats, of course, because each caster tends to cast spells of certain schools more often than others, but it is very strong. 3.0 SP is definitely worth multiple feats, even without the bonus spells.

3.5 SP is not the worst feat in the world, but there are so many better choices.

But in 3.0 Spell Focus was +2 DC.
Kalsyre
11-17-07, 05:55 PM In 3.5 its not worth a feat until around 17th lvl when the bonus spells start to stack up. It also depends on your characters starting stats and what magic gear your characters gets and when he gets it. You have to look at how it scales as your characters primary stat increases over lvls 1-20. For example...

Level 1: Assume a wizard has an INT of 16 at lvl 1. The bonus from Spellcasting Prodigy gives the wizard an 18 INT for bonus spells. The difference between 16 and 18 INT means one extra 4th lvl spell, which you cant use until 7th lvl.

Level 6: Around level 6,7,8 you should be getting a +2 INT item. This means the wizard with spellcasting prodigy picks up a bonus 1st and bonus 5th, of course you need to be 9th lvl to cast the bonus 5th, so you have waited 6 or 7 lvls to spend 1 feat for 1 bonus 1st lvl spell.

Level 8: Assuming you get the +2 item and use both stat bonuses at 4 and 8 on INT, the wizard with spellcasting prodigy has a 22 INT for bonus spells vs the wizard without who has a 20. The 22 int gives you one bonus 2nd lvl spell and one bonus 6th lvl spell. Of course you need to be 11th lvl to cast the 6th lvl spell. You are now 8th lvl getting one bonus 2nd lvl spell with this feat.

Level 12: This is about the level a player would get a +4 INT item. Again the wizard with spellcasting prodigy has a 24, the wizard without has a 22, giving the wizard with 24 one bonus 3rd lvl spell and one bonus 7th lvl spell. A wizard would need to be 13th lvl to get the bonus 7th lvl spell. The feat is close to granting 2 bonus spell slots which is nice, but its taken 13 lvls to reach it.

Level 16: 2 more stat bonuses to INT and lets assume a +6 item to max out the potential bonuses. The wizard with spellcasting prodigy has a 28 INT vs the wizard without has a 26 int. The wizard with spellcasting prodigy has a bonus 1st, 5th, and 9th. Three bonus spells is deffinately worth a feat, especially at 17th lvl when you can cast 9th lvl spells. The question is was it worth waiting 17 lvls to gain the benefit of a feat you burned at 1st lvl?

If you run the above example with a wizard starting with an 18 INT, the feat is less powerful.

If you run the above example with a wizard starting with a 14 INT, the feat is more powerful.
Jaxgaret
11-18-07, 10:39 PM But in 3.0 Spell Focus was +2 DC.

True, but that doesn't change anything about Spellcasting Prodigy itself.

Spell Focus in 3.0 was overpowered. In 3.5 it is just about balanced.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 11-15-07, 11:56 PM	What's all of the differences between the 3.0 and 3.5 version of the feat? If I'm using the 3.0 version, is it a powerful enough feat for virtually every spellcaster to want to take it? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it for a Druid.
strenoth 11-16-07, 01:44 AM	the difference if I Recall corrrectly is the 3.0 one grants bonus spells, and the 3.5 version does not. 3.0 one is pretty close to being a must-have feat
Gnarl 11-16-07, 04:19 AM	I thought it was 3.0 version grants bonus spell and increased DC and 3.5 only grants bonus spell. The 3.5 version is nearly worthless imho.
FrostHammer 11-16-07, 10:13 AM	It's basically Extra Spell Slot that scales?
The_Shaman 11-16-07, 10:41 AM	And +1 to DC, which iirc was kinda like 1/2 spell focus (anything). Now it's just a SF (anything) which doesn't count for prerequisites. Edit: sorry, my mistake.
imakuni67 11-16-07, 10:43 AM	It's basically Extra Spell Slot that scales? And how is that a bad thing?
Scion of Coldshard 11-16-07, 03:52 PM	It doesnt really scale.. it kindof shifts along and might give you a bonus spell or not, and even if it does it wont necessarily be of much use since it could wind up being too low to matter. I believe it is an effective +2 to your stat for bonus spells, which means taking the feat at first level will do nothing for you unless your prime stat is 18 or 19.. or very high numbers, but those are less likely to happen I would think. When you actually might have to think twice about increasing your prime stat because it might make one of your feats worthless for awhile that seems like a good indicator of it being a poorly thought out feat...
imakuni67 11-16-07, 04:25 PM	Between 18 and 20 though you'll get a bonus 1st and a bonus 5th level spell, which the feat would give you. Even if you are level 20, an extra cone of cold is still welcomed if you asked me, and that extra magic missle is nice too. And in a way it does scale, since you are likely to increase your key spellcasting stat every 4 levels. Let's say you got lucky and got an 18 in your stat and increase that 5 times, and take spellcasting prodigy. You'll have an extra 7th and 3rd level spell compared to someone who didn't take the feat. How wouldn't love an extra finger of death?
Gnarl 11-16-07, 06:03 PM	Between 18 and 20 though you'll get a bonus 1st and a bonus 5th level spell, which the feat would give you. Even if you are level 20, an extra cone of cold is still welcomed if you asked me, and that extra magic missle is nice too. And in a way it does scale, since you are likely to increase your key spellcasting stat every 4 levels. Let's say you got lucky and got an 18 in your stat and increase that 5 times, and take spellcasting prodigy. You'll have an extra 7th and 3rd level spell compared to someone who didn't take the feat. How wouldn't love an extra finger of death? Sure it's appealing to have an extra spell but you have better things to do with those precious feats especially since you're paying the price at level 1.
Jaxgaret 11-16-07, 07:41 PM	3.0 SP = Awesome feat 3.5 SP = Terrible feat Fin
FrostHammer 11-16-07, 09:02 PM	So just by adding the +1 DC, it becomes an awesome feat?
runestar 11-16-07, 09:31 PM	The 3.5 version is still a fairly strong feat. It has its breakpoints (in that you will benefit more at certain lvs, and less so or even not at all in other lvs), but overall well worth a feat slot, IMO.:)
Jaxgaret 11-17-07, 02:24 AM	So just by adding the +1 DC, it becomes an awesome feat? Yeah, pretty much. +1 DC to all spells, regardless of school, is very nice. Think about it - to get the same effect one must take 8 (9 if you include a theoretical SF:Universal feat) Spell Focus feats. It's not worth 8 feats, of course, because each caster tends to cast spells of certain schools more often than others, but it is very strong. 3.0 SP is definitely worth multiple feats, even without the bonus spells. 3.5 SP is not the worst feat in the world, but there are so many better choices.
navar100 11-17-07, 10:22 AM	Yeah, pretty much. +1 DC to all spells, regardless of school, is very nice. Think about it - to get the same effect one must take 8 (9 if you include a theoretical SF:Universal feat) Spell Focus feats. It's not worth 8 feats, of course, because each caster tends to cast spells of certain schools more often than others, but it is very strong. 3.0 SP is definitely worth multiple feats, even without the bonus spells. 3.5 SP is not the worst feat in the world, but there are so many better choices. But in 3.0 Spell Focus was +2 DC.
Kalsyre 11-17-07, 05:55 PM	In 3.5 its not worth a feat until around 17th lvl when the bonus spells start to stack up. It also depends on your characters starting stats and what magic gear your characters gets and when he gets it. You have to look at how it scales as your characters primary stat increases over lvls 1-20. For example... Level 1: Assume a wizard has an INT of 16 at lvl 1. The bonus from Spellcasting Prodigy gives the wizard an 18 INT for bonus spells. The difference between 16 and 18 INT means one extra 4th lvl spell, which you cant use until 7th lvl. Level 6: Around level 6,7,8 you should be getting a +2 INT item. This means the wizard with spellcasting prodigy picks up a bonus 1st and bonus 5th, of course you need to be 9th lvl to cast the bonus 5th, so you have waited 6 or 7 lvls to spend 1 feat for 1 bonus 1st lvl spell. Level 8: Assuming you get the +2 item and use both stat bonuses at 4 and 8 on INT, the wizard with spellcasting prodigy has a 22 INT for bonus spells vs the wizard without who has a 20. The 22 int gives you one bonus 2nd lvl spell and one bonus 6th lvl spell. Of course you need to be 11th lvl to cast the 6th lvl spell. You are now 8th lvl getting one bonus 2nd lvl spell with this feat. Level 12: This is about the level a player would get a +4 INT item. Again the wizard with spellcasting prodigy has a 24, the wizard without has a 22, giving the wizard with 24 one bonus 3rd lvl spell and one bonus 7th lvl spell. A wizard would need to be 13th lvl to get the bonus 7th lvl spell. The feat is close to granting 2 bonus spell slots which is nice, but its taken 13 lvls to reach it. Level 16: 2 more stat bonuses to INT and lets assume a +6 item to max out the potential bonuses. The wizard with spellcasting prodigy has a 28 INT vs the wizard without has a 26 int. The wizard with spellcasting prodigy has a bonus 1st, 5th, and 9th. Three bonus spells is deffinately worth a feat, especially at 17th lvl when you can cast 9th lvl spells. The question is was it worth waiting 17 lvls to gain the benefit of a feat you burned at 1st lvl? If you run the above example with a wizard starting with an 18 INT, the feat is less powerful. If you run the above example with a wizard starting with a 14 INT, the feat is more powerful.
Jaxgaret 11-18-07, 10:39 PM	But in 3.0 Spell Focus was +2 DC. True, but that doesn't change anything about Spellcasting Prodigy itself. Spell Focus in 3.0 was overpowered. In 3.5 it is just about balanced.