How many feats is Powerful Build worth ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How many feats is Powerful Build worth ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shadowfax7
08-22-07, 09:48 PM There was a thread some time ago that came up with how many feats Powerful Build is worth.

I believe it was 2 1/2 to 3 ??

Jotunbrud = 1 feat (maybe 1 1/2 feats since I believe it is a regional feat)

Monkey Grip = 1 feat

Plus a feat, or 1/2 feat, to get rid of the -2 penalty from Monkey Grip

Does anybody remember it, and was it pretty much as I posted above ??
runestar
08-22-07, 10:14 PM Roughly 3, I suppose. Your analysis is spot on.:)
Part-Human2
08-22-07, 10:45 PM Powerful Build allows sized-for-larger ranged weapons whereas Monkey Grip does not so maybe 1 1/2 feats. Removing a situational -2 penalty to hit is worth a feat. All the pluses to resist grappling, tripping, bull-rushing plus being treated as larger for being swallowed whole and whatnot should be at least a feat. 3 and 1/2 feats seems about right to me.
Jaxgaret
08-22-07, 10:54 PM 3.14159265 feats.

Mmmmm.
LokiOdinstorm
08-22-07, 11:12 PM *demands that Jaxgaret share the Pi* Come on, man, don't be greedy. There should be enough digits for everyone.
wonlee76
08-22-07, 11:21 PM I peg it at 3.5 feats so depends on whether you want to round up or down.

1.5 for Jotunbrund (Yes, its a regional feat and following FR philosophy of regional feats, its more powerful than a standard feat due to limitations on when you can take it and being required to be from that region).
1 for Monkey Grip
.5 for removing the -2 to hit for Monkey Grip
.5 for being able to use Monkey Grip on your offhand as well as use ranged weapons.
Unholy_King
08-23-07, 01:43 AM I peg it at 3.5 feats so depends on whether you want to round up or down.

1.5 for Jotunbrund (Yes, its a regional feat and following FR philosophy of regional feats, its more powerful than a standard feat due to limitations on when you can take it and being required to be from that region).
1 for Monkey Grip
.5 for removing the -2 to hit for Monkey Grip
.5 for being able to use Monkey Grip on your offhand as well as use ranged weapons.

Actually, it takes an epic feat to remove the -2. Wield Over-sized weapon Epic feat from CW.
runestar
08-23-07, 06:19 AM The costs of replicating powerful build grows ever higher...:(
tafkamhokie
08-23-07, 09:09 AM Don't forget the +4 to grapple, +4 to trip, +4 to bull rush, +4 to disarm, and +4 to overrun attempts.

Worst case, each of those is worth half a feat. In some cases, the +4 bonus to one type of maneuver would be worth a feat by itself (most notably the trip and grapple bonus).

So those bonuses alone are probably worth 2.5-3.5 feats.
tarkin
08-23-07, 10:02 AM I usually set it at 3 feats.

If I was playing in a strict game I might make it 4.
wonlee76
08-23-07, 10:08 AM Actually, it takes an epic feat to remove the -2. Wield Over-sized weapon Epic feat from CW.

True but I will just say that not all Epic feats are really that "Epic" (Two Weapon Rend is a good example). I forget if there were other benefits from Wield OVersized Weapon besides the removal of the -2 to hit. Presuming it does more than just getting rid of that -2 penalty, I stick to my original analysis that Powerful Build is 3 to 4 regular feat benefit.
runestar
08-23-07, 10:22 AM Considering how monkey grip is being lamblasted as being too weak, I am wondering if wield oversized weapon should take its place as a non-epic feat instead....
tarkin
08-23-07, 12:06 PM Monkey Grip is NOT weak.

That is just silly talk.

Monkey Grip is a feat that works great for any Huge or bigger creatures. For a Gargantuan creature it is the BEST freakin feat around.

But the mechanics of the weapon size increments make it so that any such feat that is good for Medium sized creatures becomes abusive for Huge or larger creatures and any feat that is good for Huge or larger creatures is not worth taking for Medium creatures.

Making Oversize Weapon a non-epic feat will:

a. give a huge boost to monsters.

b. give a huge boost to PCS that are smart enough to do the math and figure out a way to play a Huge character.

Using the current rules, my favorite non-psionic Monkey Grip build is:

Were-Bear in hybrid form, using a potion of Enlarge Person. He becomes Huge. Give him a Gargantuan sized Spiked Chain and the feat Monkey Grip and he is just a terrifying one-bear killing machine. Let him take Oversized Weapon at pre-epic levels and he can take out PC's 4 levels higher than his ECL.

P.S. Watch out Stephen Colbert, I am coming for YOU!
ToastedAmphibian
08-23-07, 05:07 PM P.S. Watch out Stephen Colbert, I am coming for YOU!

What is Mr. Colbert's ECL? Hes a Rank 0 Dieity right?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowfax7 08-22-07, 09:48 PM	There was a thread some time ago that came up with how many feats Powerful Build is worth. I believe it was 2 1/2 to 3 ?? Jotunbrud = 1 feat (maybe 1 1/2 feats since I believe it is a regional feat) Monkey Grip = 1 feat Plus a feat, or 1/2 feat, to get rid of the -2 penalty from Monkey Grip Does anybody remember it, and was it pretty much as I posted above ??
runestar 08-22-07, 10:14 PM	Roughly 3, I suppose. Your analysis is spot on.:)
Part-Human2 08-22-07, 10:45 PM	Powerful Build allows sized-for-larger ranged weapons whereas Monkey Grip does not so maybe 1 1/2 feats. Removing a situational -2 penalty to hit is worth a feat. All the pluses to resist grappling, tripping, bull-rushing plus being treated as larger for being swallowed whole and whatnot should be at least a feat. 3 and 1/2 feats seems about right to me.
Jaxgaret 08-22-07, 10:54 PM	3.14159265 feats. Mmmmm.
LokiOdinstorm 08-22-07, 11:12 PM	demands that Jaxgaret share the Pi Come on, man, don't be greedy. There should be enough digits for everyone.
wonlee76 08-22-07, 11:21 PM	I peg it at 3.5 feats so depends on whether you want to round up or down. 1.5 for Jotunbrund (Yes, its a regional feat and following FR philosophy of regional feats, its more powerful than a standard feat due to limitations on when you can take it and being required to be from that region). 1 for Monkey Grip .5 for removing the -2 to hit for Monkey Grip .5 for being able to use Monkey Grip on your offhand as well as use ranged weapons.
Unholy_King 08-23-07, 01:43 AM	I peg it at 3.5 feats so depends on whether you want to round up or down. 1.5 for Jotunbrund (Yes, its a regional feat and following FR philosophy of regional feats, its more powerful than a standard feat due to limitations on when you can take it and being required to be from that region). 1 for Monkey Grip .5 for removing the -2 to hit for Monkey Grip .5 for being able to use Monkey Grip on your offhand as well as use ranged weapons. Actually, it takes an epic feat to remove the -2. Wield Over-sized weapon Epic feat from CW.
runestar 08-23-07, 06:19 AM	The costs of replicating powerful build grows ever higher...:(
tafkamhokie 08-23-07, 09:09 AM	Don't forget the +4 to grapple, +4 to trip, +4 to bull rush, +4 to disarm, and +4 to overrun attempts. Worst case, each of those is worth half a feat. In some cases, the +4 bonus to one type of maneuver would be worth a feat by itself (most notably the trip and grapple bonus). So those bonuses alone are probably worth 2.5-3.5 feats.
tarkin 08-23-07, 10:02 AM	I usually set it at 3 feats. If I was playing in a strict game I might make it 4.
wonlee76 08-23-07, 10:08 AM	Actually, it takes an epic feat to remove the -2. Wield Over-sized weapon Epic feat from CW. True but I will just say that not all Epic feats are really that "Epic" (Two Weapon Rend is a good example). I forget if there were other benefits from Wield OVersized Weapon besides the removal of the -2 to hit. Presuming it does more than just getting rid of that -2 penalty, I stick to my original analysis that Powerful Build is 3 to 4 regular feat benefit.
runestar 08-23-07, 10:22 AM	Considering how monkey grip is being lamblasted as being too weak, I am wondering if wield oversized weapon should take its place as a non-epic feat instead....
tarkin 08-23-07, 12:06 PM	Monkey Grip is NOT weak. That is just silly talk. Monkey Grip is a feat that works great for any Huge or bigger creatures. For a Gargantuan creature it is the BEST freakin feat around. But the mechanics of the weapon size increments make it so that any such feat that is good for Medium sized creatures becomes abusive for Huge or larger creatures and any feat that is good for Huge or larger creatures is not worth taking for Medium creatures. Making Oversize Weapon a non-epic feat will: a. give a huge boost to monsters. b. give a huge boost to PCS that are smart enough to do the math and figure out a way to play a Huge character. Using the current rules, my favorite non-psionic Monkey Grip build is: Were-Bear in hybrid form, using a potion of Enlarge Person. He becomes Huge. Give him a Gargantuan sized Spiked Chain and the feat Monkey Grip and he is just a terrifying one-bear killing machine. Let him take Oversized Weapon at pre-epic levels and he can take out PC's 4 levels higher than his ECL. P.S. Watch out Stephen Colbert, I am coming for YOU!
ToastedAmphibian 08-23-07, 05:07 PM	P.S. Watch out Stephen Colbert, I am coming for YOU! What is Mr. Colbert's ECL? Hes a Rank 0 Dieity right?