How Much Does A Feat Cost? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How Much Does A Feat Cost? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DireHuman
11-21-07, 01:38 AM Now, don't be alarmed: I'm not selling feats to players for real cash moneys. Rather, I'm thinking of ways to improve my players' low-magic characters without simply handing out larger ability scores. So instead of giving out a +1 Longsword, I've opened a "training academy" where my players can spend that same 2000gp to gain the "Weapon Training +1 (Redgar's longsword)" feat. Things like a +1 Flaming Longsword are still going to be magical, don't worry.

However, I'd like to expand the training academy concept to encompass feats that aren't simply straight ports of DMG magic abilities, such as the more specific Player's Handbook 2 feats or the otherwise-never-taken +2/+2 skill feats (like Negotiator). Does anyone have any good ideas for how much they should cost? Perhaps price based on how many prerequisites the feat has, or how large the bonus is?
CryoSilver
11-21-07, 01:45 AM Those skills feats are a good use of the magic item pricing guidelines in the back of the DMG, but I wouldn't price tham at more than 3000 gp each.
DiceGolem
11-21-07, 03:39 PM Especially when talking about the +2/+2 skill feats, you should just give them out for RP rewards!

Seriously though, MIC would be a great place to look. Or simply just price them around the already existing items. The Boots of Elvenkind add +5 to one skill for 2,500 gp, but requires a boot slot. Something that only gives a +2 to two related skills without the need for a slot (say, like an Ion stone) may be at about the same price. A gold cost for a permanent, un-stealable, un-dispellable, un-surpressable +2 to two skills would be worth quite a bit more.

You shouldn't base the price on the number of feat prerequisites, you need to base the price on the power of the feat in question. Besides, anything with some hefty prerequisites is best left to the characters to take as feats. Something like Blind-Fight or Weapon Focus could be emulated with gold costs, as they don't really require much (if anything) to take as a feat. But allowing a gold cost for things like Whirlwind Attack or Greater Two-Weapon Fighting is just asking for trouble.

Regardless, buying the equivalent of Magical Artisan (+2 Spellcraft/Use Magic Device) shouldn't be treated as if you actually have the feat in question (allowing a Sorcerer to go Wild Mage, for example). Giving the complete equivalent of a feat, including for other prerequisites, would be worth so much more than simply a magic item bonus.

Magic items can be suppressed, stolen, broken, disarmed, and even cursed, and there's only so many of them you can wear at any given time. Characters only get so many feats as they progress. Changing one of those baselines by allowing feats to have a gold cost is changing one of the baselines of D&D.

So, I'd make a short list of feats that you'd allow to be bought. The +2/+2 skill feats are a good example, but you could also use feats like Endurance, Lightning Reflexes, and Run. Allowing feats with prerequisites (like Spring Attack) or feats that are just too darn useful (such as Spell Focus) to be bought is a dangerous, slippery slope that, I feel, would overpower your game.
Mahali Audran
11-24-07, 02:14 AM All Feats are not created equal. There isn't a decent standardized pricing for feat, because their usefullness is so varied.

Best way is to look at what the feat does for you, compare to existing magic items, and ask on the board.
Meep222
11-24-07, 02:19 AM There's supposedly information on this somewhere in PHBII, I havn't looked yet, but someone told's me about it. There's also rules for putting feats in a magic item in Arms and Equipment Guide Pg. 128.
CryoSilver
11-24-07, 10:14 AM Arms & Equipment also has this tendency to vastly inflate the price of everything printed within its pages.
Sledgerosaur
11-24-07, 11:31 AM I also want to know how much you would price feats :D

btw did yiu just say that the arms and equpiment guide items are overpriced?

I just speant 50k there.....:(
strenoth
11-24-07, 11:50 AM also, there's an option originally presented by one od the authors of DnD 3rd ed:

reduce wealth/level to approximatly half or lower, and in return bump stat boosts to 1/2 levels, and feats to 1/level. I don't remember if that was exactly the combination he used, but it was close to that.
Leress
11-25-07, 03:59 AM However, I'd like to expand the training academy concept to encompass feats that aren't simply straight ports of DMG magic abilities, such as the more specific Player's Handbook 2 feats or the otherwise-never-taken +2/+2 skill feats (like Negotiator). Does anyone have any good ideas for how much they should cost? Perhaps price based on how many prerequisites the feat has, or how large the bonus is?

Well for the +2/+2 feats I would price them based off of wondrous magical items. (ex. negotiator [(2^2 x 100)+(2^2 x 100)] = 800 gp then increase the price since it is non magical (+200gp) and it would cost 1000gp for training in Negotiations.(getting the feat) If they want further training those areas then they will have to pay the difference of the old value and the new values pricing.

I would most likely make based on magic item creation and add an ad hoc non magical fee to them.
Obsidianjaerc
11-25-07, 04:36 PM DIceGolem is pretty much correct. Although I feel he overestimates the degree to which brokenness could be achieved. I feel about 30-50% of existing feats should be "purchasable". Be sure to price them as if they we're unslotted magic items and treat them as if they we're (as weird as this sounds in terms of logic) as Supernatural abilities that are subject to dispellation-suppression and antimagic fields. Also ensure that people newed to either use a feat slot or feat the "trrained" feat for any prereqs a better feat might require. Do not allow them to be used as prereqs for PrCs.

We can extrapolate how much things should cost fairly easily. Take a low-power, tiny prerequisite feat like Quick Draw. Putting that into an item costs 10,000 gp. Unslotting doubles the price. Thats 20,000 gp. Now it's wise to add in an ad-hoc increase since the "feat" cannot be stolen, disjoined, etc. (although it can be suppressed by dispellation and antimagic). Let's say +25% (although really this is too low). This gives us 25,000 gp.

Taking Weapon Focus we'll start at 12,000 gp due top the second minor prereq. Ad hoc that since it's a "gateway" feat to a restricted chain this goes to 15,000. Double it to 30,000 and and the +25% and we get 37,500.

Using similar methods I get a 85k for Whirlwind Attack.

It terms of optimization it's not very efficient, but this system should be somewhat balanced (for eyeballing at least) and useable IG.
EjoThims
11-25-07, 04:55 PM Complete Scoundrel and Drow of the Underdark let you buy many skill based feats for only 6-12k gold.
Obsidianjaerc
12-06-07, 12:25 AM Could you give me a generalized example?
kelvinaw273
12-06-07, 12:07 PM My personal feeling is that a feat is worth twice what the base item that would deliver the feat would cost. Why double? Because an item can be dropped, broken, stolen or otherwise taken away. A feat is always there.

It's a nifty idea, though. I once had a character that had tattoos that emulated the effects of magic items ...
Obsidianjaerc
12-15-07, 02:13 AM There are rules for tattoos. They are among the many rules in D&D that point toward your idea being patently wrong. ;)
kelvinaw273
12-15-07, 09:21 AM There are rules for tattoos. They are among the many rules in D&D that point toward your idea being patently wrong. ;)

There is no 'right' or 'wrong', Grasshopper, merely different ways of playing the game. ;)
Obsidianjaerc
12-15-07, 12:57 PM :rofl:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DireHuman 11-21-07, 01:38 AM	Now, don't be alarmed: I'm not selling feats to players for real cash moneys. Rather, I'm thinking of ways to improve my players' low-magic characters without simply handing out larger ability scores. So instead of giving out a +1 Longsword, I've opened a "training academy" where my players can spend that same 2000gp to gain the "Weapon Training +1 (Redgar's longsword)" feat. Things like a +1 Flaming Longsword are still going to be magical, don't worry. However, I'd like to expand the training academy concept to encompass feats that aren't simply straight ports of DMG magic abilities, such as the more specific Player's Handbook 2 feats or the otherwise-never-taken +2/+2 skill feats (like Negotiator). Does anyone have any good ideas for how much they should cost? Perhaps price based on how many prerequisites the feat has, or how large the bonus is?
CryoSilver 11-21-07, 01:45 AM	Those skills feats are a good use of the magic item pricing guidelines in the back of the DMG, but I wouldn't price tham at more than 3000 gp each.
DiceGolem 11-21-07, 03:39 PM	Especially when talking about the +2/+2 skill feats, you should just give them out for RP rewards! Seriously though, MIC would be a great place to look. Or simply just price them around the already existing items. The Boots of Elvenkind add +5 to one skill for 2,500 gp, but requires a boot slot. Something that only gives a +2 to two related skills without the need for a slot (say, like an Ion stone) may be at about the same price. A gold cost for a permanent, un-stealable, un-dispellable, un-surpressable +2 to two skills would be worth quite a bit more. You shouldn't base the price on the number of feat prerequisites, you need to base the price on the power of the feat in question. Besides, anything with some hefty prerequisites is best left to the characters to take as feats. Something like Blind-Fight or Weapon Focus could be emulated with gold costs, as they don't really require much (if anything) to take as a feat. But allowing a gold cost for things like Whirlwind Attack or Greater Two-Weapon Fighting is just asking for trouble. Regardless, buying the equivalent of Magical Artisan (+2 Spellcraft/Use Magic Device) shouldn't be treated as if you actually have the feat in question (allowing a Sorcerer to go Wild Mage, for example). Giving the complete equivalent of a feat, including for other prerequisites, would be worth so much more than simply a magic item bonus. Magic items can be suppressed, stolen, broken, disarmed, and even cursed, and there's only so many of them you can wear at any given time. Characters only get so many feats as they progress. Changing one of those baselines by allowing feats to have a gold cost is changing one of the baselines of D&D. So, I'd make a short list of feats that you'd allow to be bought. The +2/+2 skill feats are a good example, but you could also use feats like Endurance, Lightning Reflexes, and Run. Allowing feats with prerequisites (like Spring Attack) or feats that are just too darn useful (such as Spell Focus) to be bought is a dangerous, slippery slope that, I feel, would overpower your game.
Mahali Audran 11-24-07, 02:14 AM	All Feats are not created equal. There isn't a decent standardized pricing for feat, because their usefullness is so varied. Best way is to look at what the feat does for you, compare to existing magic items, and ask on the board.
Meep222 11-24-07, 02:19 AM	There's supposedly information on this somewhere in PHBII, I havn't looked yet, but someone told's me about it. There's also rules for putting feats in a magic item in Arms and Equipment Guide Pg. 128.
CryoSilver 11-24-07, 10:14 AM	Arms & Equipment also has this tendency to vastly inflate the price of everything printed within its pages.
Sledgerosaur 11-24-07, 11:31 AM	I also want to know how much you would price feats :D btw did yiu just say that the arms and equpiment guide items are overpriced? I just speant 50k there.....:(
strenoth 11-24-07, 11:50 AM	also, there's an option originally presented by one od the authors of DnD 3rd ed: reduce wealth/level to approximatly half or lower, and in return bump stat boosts to 1/2 levels, and feats to 1/level. I don't remember if that was exactly the combination he used, but it was close to that.
Leress 11-25-07, 03:59 AM	However, I'd like to expand the training academy concept to encompass feats that aren't simply straight ports of DMG magic abilities, such as the more specific Player's Handbook 2 feats or the otherwise-never-taken +2/+2 skill feats (like Negotiator). Does anyone have any good ideas for how much they should cost? Perhaps price based on how many prerequisites the feat has, or how large the bonus is? Well for the +2/+2 feats I would price them based off of wondrous magical items. (ex. negotiator [(2^2 x 100)+(2^2 x 100)] = 800 gp then increase the price since it is non magical (+200gp) and it would cost 1000gp for training in Negotiations.(getting the feat) If they want further training those areas then they will have to pay the difference of the old value and the new values pricing. I would most likely make based on magic item creation and add an ad hoc non magical fee to them.
Obsidianjaerc 11-25-07, 04:36 PM	DIceGolem is pretty much correct. Although I feel he overestimates the degree to which brokenness could be achieved. I feel about 30-50% of existing feats should be "purchasable". Be sure to price them as if they we're unslotted magic items and treat them as if they we're (as weird as this sounds in terms of logic) as Supernatural abilities that are subject to dispellation-suppression and antimagic fields. Also ensure that people newed to either use a feat slot or feat the "trrained" feat for any prereqs a better feat might require. Do not allow them to be used as prereqs for PrCs. We can extrapolate how much things should cost fairly easily. Take a low-power, tiny prerequisite feat like Quick Draw. Putting that into an item costs 10,000 gp. Unslotting doubles the price. Thats 20,000 gp. Now it's wise to add in an ad-hoc increase since the "feat" cannot be stolen, disjoined, etc. (although it can be suppressed by dispellation and antimagic). Let's say +25% (although really this is too low). This gives us 25,000 gp. Taking Weapon Focus we'll start at 12,000 gp due top the second minor prereq. Ad hoc that since it's a "gateway" feat to a restricted chain this goes to 15,000. Double it to 30,000 and and the +25% and we get 37,500. Using similar methods I get a 85k for Whirlwind Attack. It terms of optimization it's not very efficient, but this system should be somewhat balanced (for eyeballing at least) and useable IG.
EjoThims 11-25-07, 04:55 PM	Complete Scoundrel and Drow of the Underdark let you buy many skill based feats for only 6-12k gold.
Obsidianjaerc 12-06-07, 12:25 AM	Could you give me a generalized example?
kelvinaw273 12-06-07, 12:07 PM	My personal feeling is that a feat is worth twice what the base item that would deliver the feat would cost. Why double? Because an item can be dropped, broken, stolen or otherwise taken away. A feat is always there. It's a nifty idea, though. I once had a character that had tattoos that emulated the effects of magic items ...
Obsidianjaerc 12-15-07, 02:13 AM	There are rules for tattoos. They are among the many rules in D&D that point toward your idea being patently wrong. ;)
kelvinaw273 12-15-07, 09:21 AM	There are rules for tattoos. They are among the many rules in D&D that point toward your idea being patently wrong. ;) There is no 'right' or 'wrong', Grasshopper, merely different ways of playing the game. ;)
Obsidianjaerc 12-15-07, 12:57 PM	:rofl: