Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kubelick 04-17-07, 06:28 AM	another dilemma: 2 dire wolves attack party. half-orc strikes down 1 dire wolf. dire wolf is down to -5. druid of the party heals the uncounsious dire wolf. druid wants to keep the dire wolf. how to tame the wolf? 2. lvl druid. for now he is just feeding him, petting him and the like. we looked into the diplomacy checks to get the wolf to react other than hostile to the druid, to get some sort of friendly energy between the two. unfortunately the dice didn't want that. animal empathy? will post druid stats, as soon as i get them. druid 2 5 ranks in handle animal wild empathy cha 6 (not so good) thks
Eothain 04-17-07, 10:10 AM	According to Raw you must spend about one minute to change the npc attitude. You must roll a d20 as a diplomacy checks, even if its an animal (due to Wild empathy), if you fail the dire animal will be attacking you... perhaps "speak with animal" will improve things "me no harm you" (after all they hace a 2 int score) and perhaps that will at least "calm" the animal avoiding attack.... then you could try another wild empathy checks.
tyrecian 04-17-07, 06:04 PM	what about "calm animals"? The dire animal gets a will save, but it would make it harmless for a bit, 1st level spell.
Kouk 04-18-07, 02:17 AM	what about "calm animals"? The dire animal gets a will save, but it would make it harmless for a bit, 1st level spell. Yep, that calms it down but it would probably revert to hostile when the spell wears off. Wild Empathy functions like a Diplomacy check, but the skill modifier is the druid's level + charisma mod (-2 in this case) and since he has 5 ranks in handle animal a +2 synergy bonus. His Wild Empathy check would have a modifier of +2. Not that great. You would have to roll at least an 18 if the thing is still hostile, the DM may rule that feeding it and such lowers the DC. I would just cast Calm Animals, and then leave it where it is and leave. That way when the spell wears off it can resume it's life in the wild and you will be far away (hopefully). You can't make it a companion until level 7 (which may be interesting if the druid makes a point of going back for it) so being nice serves no purpose other than RP, and the druid is too low level to get much accomplished with it.
penchant 04-18-07, 02:24 AM	Wild Empathy can give you diplomacy, but diplomacy can't tame NPC's. Use the Handle Animal rules. Every thing is in there that you need.
Theogonist 04-18-07, 04:54 AM	The Arms & Equipment Guide has a complete chapter dedicated to training different kinds of animals for various purposes.
CaoSlayer 04-18-07, 12:41 PM	Lobotomize it.
MindLich 04-18-07, 12:53 PM	Lobotomize it. Lol, thats funny. If you are a goofy gnome, you could do it. But seeing as he is a druid, it would be really bad RPing.
Vrellum 04-18-07, 01:52 PM	By RAW I don't think you can tame a dire wolf. Handle animal allows you to rear a wild animal and teach it tricks, but since this animal is already grown I don't think it would apply. Handle animal might be usuable sometimes, but it would be a DC 25 check that requires a full round action to "push" the animal. Wild empathy would let the druid control the animal to some degree, but he'd have to keep a close eye on it or else it would bite/kill something. Actually, since diplomacy checks take a minute to perform, he might kill someone before the druid could regain control. Ofcourse you could just house rule it.
kubelick 04-18-07, 01:58 PM	my feelings exactly. thanks a lot. the dire thing will be gone, as soon as he can crawl, walk or run.
BW0222 04-18-07, 09:52 PM	kubelick, You are unlikely to convince it to be friendly, considering you dropped it and his friend. IMO, it flees the first chance it gets. However, remember speak with animals. Nothing says that you can't talk to it. If it is seriously injured, you might offer it some healing, food, water, etc. Most likely, it would still flee in this case, but presumably if you had subdued it, didn't slaughter his friend, etc. you might convince it that you could help it hunt, provide it with food while it recovered, etc. for a few hours. Given enough time (a few days)... (you better have a lot of speak with animals) you might be able say drive off a rival, fix up his den, find him a female (detect plants an animals), etc. As a DM, I'd let a smart druid replace (or give a large bonus) to the wild empathy with a speak with animals in place and some suitable bribes. You'd still need to make the handle animal check (and take the time) to rear it, but you would have a much better chance of getting it to allow you to rear it.
kubelick 04-19-07, 10:23 AM	The Arms & Equipment Guide has a complete chapter dedicated to training different kinds of animals for various purposes. that'll be 3.0, wouldn't it? the skip williams bit really helps understanding, though.
Vrellum 04-19-07, 12:27 PM	kubelick, As a DM, I'd let a smart druid replace (or give a large bonus) to the wild empathy with a speak with animals in place and some suitable bribes. You'd still need to make the handle animal check (and take the time) to rear it, but you would have a much better chance of getting it to allow you to rear it. i believe "rear" an animal referrs to raising to adulthood, not training it after becomes an adult.
BW0222 04-19-07, 01:04 PM	Vrellum i believe "rear" an animal referrs to raising to adulthood, not training it after becomes an adult. Correct. PHB says 'infancy', but I think the DM has some latitude and how old the animal needs to be. A wild horse, sheep, goat, or wolf can likely be domesticated even in adulthood. Skunks, birds, wild geese, and the like prior to their 'teens'. I think the general intent is that you need to be able to work with the animal without being killed. You can't bond with a wild (full grown) tiger. While a kit growning up you would work with prior to it getting to big to discipline or work with. A dire wolf is a pack animal. I don't think it would necessarily have to be 3 weeks old in order to start rearing it. I agree that your typical specimen is likely too old to rear. However, I don't see much of an issue if you have speak with animals keeping it calm enough to work with say a young dire wolf, rather than a true infant.
Guan 04-19-07, 01:20 PM	I'd take some direction from the Monster's Manual. Entries for animals, like giant owls, give a good direction as to what needs to happen to "train" it. It states the animal must be friendly toward you. Done through successful Diplomacy checks over several days or weeks. (Circumstance modifiers could definetely apply.) It then takes six weeks to "train" a giant owl with a Handle Animal Check of 25. Throw in some "rearing" from the Handle Animal skill with a good deal of modifiers. After all it is already grown and wild. It should take a good deal of time, especially with failed checks, but would be a good role playing oppertunity for the Druid. This is a game of possibilites, so anything should be possible, just keep it fun and as close to the RAW as possible and all should be well.
BW0222 04-19-07, 02:44 PM	Guan, I'd take some direction from the Monster's Manual. Entries for animals, like giant owls, give a good direction as to what needs to happen to "train" it. What? A giant owl is not an animal. It is a magical beast and it is both intelligent and capable of speech. None of the handle animal rules apply to intelligent creatures. The rules in the MM for a giant owl, are solely for training a giant owl to accept a rider. They have nothing to do with rearing an animal. A giant owl does not need to be domesticated -- you can just ask it not to pee on the carpet and it understands that the people in funny hats tossing balls around are entertainers and that they aren't offering to play 'fetch' with him. It states the animal must be friendly toward you. Actually, it states that the 'giant owl' must be friendly. Done through successful Diplomacy checks over several days or weeks. (Circumstance modifiers could definetely apply.) Because you can talk with it and it is intelligent enough to have a rational conversation with. Animals are neither. Throw in some "rearing" from the Handle Animal skill with a good deal of modifiers. After all it is already grown and wild. It should take a good deal of time, especially with failed checks, but would be a good role playing oppertunity for the Druid. Adult animals can not be reared by the RAW. The fact that certain intelligent magical beasts (i.e. giant owls) can be trained to bear a rider, does not mean that one can rear a tiger. This is a game of possibilites, so anything should be possible, just keep it fun and as close to the RAW as possible and all should be well. By RAW, you can not rear non-infant animals using the handle animal skill. You can use the skill to train a giant owl to bear a rider, provided you can convince it to do so.
kubelick 04-20-07, 04:24 AM	well, yes, the dire wolf is quite grown. as a matter of fact, it is the mother of some cubs in the bushes miles away. given this, she will not desert her cubs to »fetch slippers« for a 2nd lvl druid. magic is a powerful tool and will, if checks are successful, subude the animal for the time it is »drugged«. as the effect wears off, the mother will seek to abandon the druid, as she has not been tamed (which is impossible, as we have discovered), not recognizing him as the alpha dog, etc. and will go about her business. i think all this taming business (i am not a veterenarian) is basically telling a dog or any animal that lives in packs, that you are the alpha dog and what you say is law, or without you the animal is in great danger. but that is off topic. (nice side note on the elephant training in the other thread! ;-))
penchant 04-21-07, 12:56 AM	Wolves, even Dire Wolves, are pack animals. They are social creatures that insinctively know to establish a heirarchy. All the Druid would have to do, is establish himself as the Alpha Male and pack leader for the wolf. As long as the Druid never weakens or shows fear the wolf will willingly follow the druid loyally. Of course Klingon rules apply. This wouldn't even be out of character for the druid, as it is the wolves rules and the way of the natural world. Rule wise, the easy way is to use intmidate and handle animal until you get a feat and then pick leadership and take the wolf as a cohort. Don't give up! You have a genuine opportunity to role play the gaining of class features here!
kubelick 04-21-07, 11:35 AM	well, as far as i can discern, the plan is, that the barb of the group slaughters the mother dire wolf and that's the end of the dilemma with the cubs. yes, roll play potential is aplenty in this scenario. unfortunately my druid (i am the d-mistress) is not interested in it. the way i see it, is that he seeks a way to boost his fighting potential, which he thought he could achieve through the dire wolverine. having painstankingly discovered how difficult a task it is to tame it, teach it etc. he dropped the oppurtunity and is thinking of just purchasing a trained dire wolf, as soon as the oppurtunity arises. it's rather sad. i thought the rearing of the cubs could have become a great subplot and an oppurtunity to give the character some depth. we'll see what happens. other than that, the discussion, which was quite heated, opened up a whole new universe for the existing animals in the group. (donkey, riding dog, etc.). the preoccupation with the rules disclosed not only the restrictions but gave my players new ideas. and of course, the hairsplitting of the rules is tiring. but i think it will have a positvite effect on the way the characters deal with their animal campanions and such like, from the rollplaying point of view. (more rolling of the dice, way i see it.)