I see nobody talking about skill tricks [Archive] - Wizards Community

I see nobody talking about skill tricks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rhuxley
05-03-07, 12:10 PM Why is there no threads discussing skill tricks? Does nobody like them?
Puca
05-03-07, 12:14 PM I like the idea. Some seem a little powerful, but I havent really gotten a chance to use them in play. I dont want to make any claims until I have.
Keeper of the Mists
05-03-07, 12:27 PM My group has a couple people taking skill tricks (none of them scoundrels or rogueish types, btw). We've found that within the niche of their characters, the specific tricks they take are fantastic, far superior to the skills they would have spent the points on.

For instance, the hexblade/fighter/dragon lord has max Intimidate with a few magic items and special abilities enhancing it, so he took teh Never Outnumbered (something like that?) skill trick that allows him to intimidate multiple opponents. Keeps with the theme of the character, allows him more versatility without spending a feat, and isn't too overpowered. It fits him perfect, and adds range to his character, which he absolutely loves.

I am a big fan of KNowledge checks, as well, allowing them for determining monster weaknesses and such. The wizard, with max ranks in all Knowledges, took the Skill Trick that allowed him to get bonuses for making a Knowledge check to find out what a monster is and what its weaknesses are. Simple, keeps with the character (he wants him to be a scholarly, worldly type), and isn't too overpowered.

In all, I think that the skill tricks are very focused, and only really help characters with either a theme or a specialization....but are extremely useful and should be essential for characters that are specialized in any area.
mostholy2
05-03-07, 12:54 PM In addition, remember skill tricks can only be used once per combat, so its great for that one maneuver, but then you have to wait to use the same trick again.
Jackmojo
05-03-07, 02:31 PM The only skill tricks in play so far in my group are Collector of Stories (+5 to knowledge checks to ID critters) and the one which lets you pinpoint an invisible oppenent for one round.

Collector of stories certainly pays off as it gets used neraly every combat.

The other is more niche, but it does let the druid spot them long enough to light them up with faerie fire for everyone else to see.

Jack
Savenger
05-03-07, 08:19 PM I have picked up a bounch of them for my range

I have listen to this (lets me give information ot the party much easier)
the see invisibility one (came in handy when the door to the locale tavern we were in opened mysteriously and it all went silent, assasins!!! i saw them as did the rouge who has sumthing that lets him see invisibility 3 times/day (corsairs eyepatch maybe)

I also have the one that lets an alley re-attempt a spot check (depending on the situation this comes in handy)

I have the one for swiming (quick swimmer i belive)
And finally i have the healing one (heal d6 when you stabalize someone, which comes in handy as the town were in has frequent battles with many outsiders and its handy after words to walk through and patch em all up.

The wizard in out party has the knowledge one for finding out what something is.

They come in handy but you must be careful not to abuse them.

Savenger
Argo
05-03-07, 08:21 PM I had an athletic Rogue who was on his way toward Thief-Acrobat a while back. He had the skill tricks Leaping Climber and Fast Climber. Leaping Climber helped him escape to a rooftop and avoid a mob of supergoblins, and Fast Climber let him get the drop on a giant spider.

Not overpowered, fit with the theme of the character as a strong, fast character who liked climbing things.

I really do enjoy the skill trick system.
Jaxgaret
05-03-07, 09:16 PM I haven't seen CS yet; what drawbacks are there to taking the Skill Tricks as opposed to not?
Kusari_Gamer
05-03-07, 09:28 PM And finally i have the healing one (heal d6 when you stabalize someone, which comes in handy as the town were in has frequent battles with many outsiders and its handy after words to walk through and patch em all up.

Doesn't work that way...
Keeper of the Mists
05-03-07, 10:02 PM I haven't seen CS yet; what drawbacks are there to taking the Skill Tricks as opposed to not?

Skill Tricks cost 2 skill points. That's the drawback....for those classes that have to hoard their skill points, it's not always worth taking a skill trick instead of, say, maxing Intimidate or Tumble. Plus, you have to qualify for skill tricks by having a certain number of ranks in the skill in question. But for those classes with skill points to spare to invest in both maxing the skill and taking a specialized skill trick, they are fantastic.
darkeness
05-03-07, 10:27 PM Doesn't work that way...
Yes, that's exactly how it works. "When you stabilize a dying character they also heal 1d6 damage"
Jaxgaret
05-03-07, 10:44 PM Skill Tricks cost 2 skill points. That's the drawback....for those classes that have to hoard their skill points, it's not always worth taking a skill trick instead of, say, maxing Intimidate or Tumble. Plus, you have to qualify for skill tricks by having a certain number of ranks in the skill in question. But for those classes with skill points to spare to invest in both maxing the skill and taking a specialized skill trick, they are fantastic.

That's... awesomely awesome. I need to check it out posthaste.
Splendide
05-03-07, 10:54 PM Acrobatic Backstab is just scary good.
Dead_Weasel
05-03-07, 10:59 PM The ones that involve sneak attacks scare me a little bit just because of how good they seem, but aside from that they just give a quick boost that is useful but not particularly powerful. A lot of them seem to me to be ways to bring reasonable RP-ish actions into the rules.
Chimaera2000
05-03-07, 11:00 PM Acrobatic Backstab would be scary good if you could use it more than once per encounter. As it stands, though, the lack of any kind of in-combat recovery method for skill tricks (like the maneuvers of Tome of Battle martial adepts), they're nice but far from overpowered.

I personally find Collector of Stories to be the most useful overall. A +5 bonus to identify any single type of monster? Yes, please! I also tend to pick up Extreme Leap; adding another ten feet to your jump can be handy.
Splendide
05-03-07, 11:06 PM As regards the `once per encounter' thing, Uncanny Trickster anyone? Its now my favourite PrC because it give complete class abilities from a previous class for two levels, in addition to more cheesy tricks.

Also don't forget that the prereqs for Acrobatic Backstab are the same as for Acrobatic Strike from PHB2 ;)
navar100
05-04-07, 01:37 AM They're an interesting idea, but I don't think they were necessary. Maybe one or two could have been a feat, such as getting up from prone without drawing an AoO.

Anecdote: Before Complete Scoundrel came out, in one combat my warlock was attacked by a skeleton in a small room. All I wanted to do was get out of the room. However, I would draw an AoO from the skeleton for moving through his threaten area. Extrapolating the feint ability of Bluff, I asked the DM if I could Bluff as my standard action such that when I move the skeleton would not take an AoO against me. The DM said "sure", and I succeeded. (Thanks Beguiling Influence!:P ) Complete Scoundrel comes out a couple of months later, and lo and behold there's a skill trick to let me do what I already did.

As it is, for most of the tricks, you shouldn't have to pay skill points for them. They seem reasonable, if thinking a bit outside the box, of what you can do with a skill as is. If a particular trick is "too powerful" for just using a skill normally, make it a feat.
Nicholas the Paladin
05-04-07, 03:13 AM I'm a 2nd level beguiler that uses 'color spray' a lot in combat. That requires me to be close with opponents, risking AoO's, so I use the 'conceal casting' skilltrick when I need to. Untill now the 'use once per combat' was enough in conjunction with hiding.
Rhuxley
05-04-07, 08:39 AM What i dont get about 'conceal spellcasting' is that, you can already do that. Its in races of stone, but it says that you can already make a slieght of hand check to conceal spellcasting.

That skill trick does nothing.

Skill Tricks I like: Never outnumbered; Whip Climber;
Nicholas the Paladin
05-04-07, 08:44 AM What i dont get about 'conceal spellcasting' is that, you can already do that. Its in races of stone, but it says that you can already make a slieght of hand check to conceal spellcasting.; I use this skilltrick in combat, while the skill is for social situation only. The skilltrick lets you avoid AoO's, the skill avoids an embarrassing situation.

Using the skill in combat is just way to powerfull IMHO.
ibayboy
05-04-07, 10:38 AM In our current campaign, i am playing a Warmage/Swordsage/Jade Phoenix Mage, who has taken Collector of Stories, and found it invaluable. Also i have a Warblade that has Twisted Charge and Back on Your Feet. He usually starts combat with a 'leap attack' and has already used the twisted charge, but being a Goliath with good ranks in balance, he has yet to fall down or be tripped. I am planning to take the Freerunner feat next level and going to use it to get Extreme Leap and Agile Climber. We shall see.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rhuxley 05-03-07, 12:10 PM	Why is there no threads discussing skill tricks? Does nobody like them?
Puca 05-03-07, 12:14 PM	I like the idea. Some seem a little powerful, but I havent really gotten a chance to use them in play. I dont want to make any claims until I have.
Keeper of the Mists 05-03-07, 12:27 PM	My group has a couple people taking skill tricks (none of them scoundrels or rogueish types, btw). We've found that within the niche of their characters, the specific tricks they take are fantastic, far superior to the skills they would have spent the points on. For instance, the hexblade/fighter/dragon lord has max Intimidate with a few magic items and special abilities enhancing it, so he took teh Never Outnumbered (something like that?) skill trick that allows him to intimidate multiple opponents. Keeps with the theme of the character, allows him more versatility without spending a feat, and isn't too overpowered. It fits him perfect, and adds range to his character, which he absolutely loves. I am a big fan of KNowledge checks, as well, allowing them for determining monster weaknesses and such. The wizard, with max ranks in all Knowledges, took the Skill Trick that allowed him to get bonuses for making a Knowledge check to find out what a monster is and what its weaknesses are. Simple, keeps with the character (he wants him to be a scholarly, worldly type), and isn't too overpowered. In all, I think that the skill tricks are very focused, and only really help characters with either a theme or a specialization....but are extremely useful and should be essential for characters that are specialized in any area.
mostholy2 05-03-07, 12:54 PM	In addition, remember skill tricks can only be used once per combat, so its great for that one maneuver, but then you have to wait to use the same trick again.
Jackmojo 05-03-07, 02:31 PM	The only skill tricks in play so far in my group are Collector of Stories (+5 to knowledge checks to ID critters) and the one which lets you pinpoint an invisible oppenent for one round. Collector of stories certainly pays off as it gets used neraly every combat. The other is more niche, but it does let the druid spot them long enough to light them up with faerie fire for everyone else to see. Jack
Savenger 05-03-07, 08:19 PM	I have picked up a bounch of them for my range I have listen to this (lets me give information ot the party much easier) the see invisibility one (came in handy when the door to the locale tavern we were in opened mysteriously and it all went silent, assasins!!! i saw them as did the rouge who has sumthing that lets him see invisibility 3 times/day (corsairs eyepatch maybe) I also have the one that lets an alley re-attempt a spot check (depending on the situation this comes in handy) I have the one for swiming (quick swimmer i belive) And finally i have the healing one (heal d6 when you stabalize someone, which comes in handy as the town were in has frequent battles with many outsiders and its handy after words to walk through and patch em all up. The wizard in out party has the knowledge one for finding out what something is. They come in handy but you must be careful not to abuse them. Savenger
Argo 05-03-07, 08:21 PM	I had an athletic Rogue who was on his way toward Thief-Acrobat a while back. He had the skill tricks Leaping Climber and Fast Climber. Leaping Climber helped him escape to a rooftop and avoid a mob of supergoblins, and Fast Climber let him get the drop on a giant spider. Not overpowered, fit with the theme of the character as a strong, fast character who liked climbing things. I really do enjoy the skill trick system.
Jaxgaret 05-03-07, 09:16 PM	I haven't seen CS yet; what drawbacks are there to taking the Skill Tricks as opposed to not?
Kusari_Gamer 05-03-07, 09:28 PM	And finally i have the healing one (heal d6 when you stabalize someone, which comes in handy as the town were in has frequent battles with many outsiders and its handy after words to walk through and patch em all up. Doesn't work that way...
Keeper of the Mists 05-03-07, 10:02 PM	I haven't seen CS yet; what drawbacks are there to taking the Skill Tricks as opposed to not? Skill Tricks cost 2 skill points. That's the drawback....for those classes that have to hoard their skill points, it's not always worth taking a skill trick instead of, say, maxing Intimidate or Tumble. Plus, you have to qualify for skill tricks by having a certain number of ranks in the skill in question. But for those classes with skill points to spare to invest in both maxing the skill and taking a specialized skill trick, they are fantastic.
darkeness 05-03-07, 10:27 PM	Doesn't work that way... Yes, that's exactly how it works. "When you stabilize a dying character they also heal 1d6 damage"
Jaxgaret 05-03-07, 10:44 PM	Skill Tricks cost 2 skill points. That's the drawback....for those classes that have to hoard their skill points, it's not always worth taking a skill trick instead of, say, maxing Intimidate or Tumble. Plus, you have to qualify for skill tricks by having a certain number of ranks in the skill in question. But for those classes with skill points to spare to invest in both maxing the skill and taking a specialized skill trick, they are fantastic. That's... awesomely awesome. I need to check it out posthaste.
Splendide 05-03-07, 10:54 PM	Acrobatic Backstab is just scary good.
Dead_Weasel 05-03-07, 10:59 PM	The ones that involve sneak attacks scare me a little bit just because of how good they seem, but aside from that they just give a quick boost that is useful but not particularly powerful. A lot of them seem to me to be ways to bring reasonable RP-ish actions into the rules.
Chimaera2000 05-03-07, 11:00 PM	Acrobatic Backstab would be scary good if you could use it more than once per encounter. As it stands, though, the lack of any kind of in-combat recovery method for skill tricks (like the maneuvers of Tome of Battle martial adepts), they're nice but far from overpowered. I personally find Collector of Stories to be the most useful overall. A +5 bonus to identify any single type of monster? Yes, please! I also tend to pick up Extreme Leap; adding another ten feet to your jump can be handy.
Splendide 05-03-07, 11:06 PM	As regards the `once per encounter' thing, Uncanny Trickster anyone? Its now my favourite PrC because it give complete class abilities from a previous class for two levels, in addition to more cheesy tricks. Also don't forget that the prereqs for Acrobatic Backstab are the same as for Acrobatic Strike from PHB2 ;)
navar100 05-04-07, 01:37 AM	They're an interesting idea, but I don't think they were necessary. Maybe one or two could have been a feat, such as getting up from prone without drawing an AoO. Anecdote: Before Complete Scoundrel came out, in one combat my warlock was attacked by a skeleton in a small room. All I wanted to do was get out of the room. However, I would draw an AoO from the skeleton for moving through his threaten area. Extrapolating the feint ability of Bluff, I asked the DM if I could Bluff as my standard action such that when I move the skeleton would not take an AoO against me. The DM said "sure", and I succeeded. (Thanks Beguiling Influence!:P ) Complete Scoundrel comes out a couple of months later, and lo and behold there's a skill trick to let me do what I already did. As it is, for most of the tricks, you shouldn't have to pay skill points for them. They seem reasonable, if thinking a bit outside the box, of what you can do with a skill as is. If a particular trick is "too powerful" for just using a skill normally, make it a feat.
Nicholas the Paladin 05-04-07, 03:13 AM	I'm a 2nd level beguiler that uses 'color spray' a lot in combat. That requires me to be close with opponents, risking AoO's, so I use the 'conceal casting' skilltrick when I need to. Untill now the 'use once per combat' was enough in conjunction with hiding.
Rhuxley 05-04-07, 08:39 AM	What i dont get about 'conceal spellcasting' is that, you can already do that. Its in races of stone, but it says that you can already make a slieght of hand check to conceal spellcasting. That skill trick does nothing. Skill Tricks I like: Never outnumbered; Whip Climber;
Nicholas the Paladin 05-04-07, 08:44 AM	What i dont get about 'conceal spellcasting' is that, you can already do that. Its in races of stone, but it says that you can already make a slieght of hand check to conceal spellcasting.; I use this skilltrick in combat, while the skill is for social situation only. The skilltrick lets you avoid AoO's, the skill avoids an embarrassing situation. Using the skill in combat is just way to powerfull IMHO.
ibayboy 05-04-07, 10:38 AM	In our current campaign, i am playing a Warmage/Swordsage/Jade Phoenix Mage, who has taken Collector of Stories, and found it invaluable. Also i have a Warblade that has Twisted Charge and Back on Your Feet. He usually starts combat with a 'leap attack' and has already used the twisted charge, but being a Goliath with good ranks in balance, he has yet to fall down or be tripped. I am planning to take the Freerunner feat next level and going to use it to get Extreme Leap and Agile Climber. We shall see.