Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bkdubs123 09-19-07, 05:26 PM	Yeah, working on a remake of OA's Iaijitsu Master to make it 3.5 / ToB / not-OA. I want to bring back the Iaijitsu Focus Roll = bonus damage mechanic. I want to keep it based off of a skill and just have a class ability to use a skill as that. As such, I want it to either be a special boost that does not take a swift action, or make it a non-maneuver for a ToB class. I thought about bringing IF back to key the ability to that, but that's something I'd like to avoid. So I've thought of four skills to key it to: Concentration Pro: It makes sense in the light of how Diamond Mind uses it, and it really is a sort of concentration. It's also Diamond Mind's key skill. Con: It's a PrC that builds off of the Diamond Mind school - an adept going in is already going to have Conc out the wazoo, this may be too much synergy. Martial Lore Pro: Uhm ... "It comes from being wise in the school's ways, and ML kinda represents that, sort of". Con: The above justification is really weak. Intimidate Pro: It's cha-based, and a iaijitsu stare can be pretty intimidating, and the class uses some intimidation mechanics. Plus, the secondary use of IF isn't much different that Intimidate's 'duel of wills' thing. Also, it's not conc, so it requires a bit of dis-synergy to really abuse it. Con: It's a stretch to make it fit. Balance Pro: It's sort of flavorful, a class skill, and meshes well with the faint Iron Heart elements in class. Con: It's maybe more of a reach than Martial Lore. So ... I'm leaning towards Concentration, but the listed con keeps me from just going with it. And so I turn here for input. Help? Hmm... ya know I've always wondered why it is that only a Rogue should be able to use sneaky attacks to deal extra damage. Why can't a fighter sneak up on a creature and hammer his sword through its belly? Or for that matter drop out of nowhere and do the same? Iaijutsu Focus allowed the OA Samurai to do these things and deal comparable amounts of damage to a Rogue's Sneak Attack. I'm all for saying that Rogue's are just better at sneak attacks and therefore deal more damage when using such tactics, but I think anyone ought to be able to use the tactics to deal extra damage. If I were to update the system, and make it skill based I would modify the feint rules to allow extra dice of damage after a successful feint. Very close to the Iaijutsu Focus method, and it makes sense across the board. I would however alter it so that "feinting" isn't always what you have to do with a bluff in combat. Running up to someone without a weapon drawn and then in a single instant drawing and slashing is a bluff, but not really a feint. Nevertheless they were certainly caught flatfooted. They didn't expect you to attack with the weapon, and if they did, they certainly didn't expect it so suddenly. Facing off against an enemy, staring him in the eyes with your guard ominously held down is another type of bluff, but not a feint. ******** Another way you could try to port Iaijutsu Focus to 3.5 would be some sort of special Sense Motive check. A sort of reverse feint. You watch your opponent carefully, not making any attacks for a single round, and in the next round, depending on your check, you attack quickly and decisively dealing extra damage as you note a weakness in your foe's defenses. So, what do you think of this sort of thing? Should other characters besides the rogue be able to benefit from a kind of guerrilla tactics? Should a Paladin/Ranger/Fighter be able to attack from concealment in order to deal extra damage? If so, how? What do you think of the possibilities above?
Salla 09-19-07, 05:28 PM	If a character wants to perform sneak-attack style guerilla tactics, then he should simply multiclass into rogue or another sneak attack/sudden strike/skirmish-granting class and spend his skill points appropriately.
bkdubs123 09-19-07, 07:02 PM	Well, what I'm suggesting is that shouldn't the ability to attack using stealth be a general combat option rather than one a player has to acquire through class features? I mean surely, in the real world even, you or I could sneak up on someone and attack them causing greater wounds than if we were to attack someone who saw it coming. Does this mean we automatically have a level of Scout or Rogue? Doubtful. I hope people will actually consider the quoted portions of the original post when replying. I would like to hear feedback on those as well.
Sixam 09-20-07, 01:43 AM	Well, Monks already have Ascetic Rogue in Complete Adventurer. Sneak Attack + Flurry of Blows is tempting enough to get me to try a Monk.
BruceLeeroy 09-20-07, 02:14 AM	I really dig Iaijutsu focus, myself. It's hard enough to get the enemy flatfooted as it is, and then being able to use the attack only immediately after drawing a weapon makes it dangerous to attempt to use more than once in combat (unless, of course, you have multiple weapons...). I would suggest a feat: Iaijutsu training. This would allow them to use Concentration to roll extra dice of damage on a successful iaijutsu strike. Since they probably going to be using quick draw as well, a two-feat and high skill-point investment in order to get extra damage in a special situation seems well balanced to me. Especially since most melee classes don't get many skill points, and concentration is a cross-class skill most of the time.
ibonet 09-20-07, 05:56 AM	What about Dread Comando (Heroes of Battle PrC). It seems to fulfill this rol, isn't it?
bkdubs123 09-20-07, 02:04 PM	Dread Commando is a great prestige class, but I'm preposing that the opportunity to "Sneak Attack" someone should be by its nature something anyone ought to have the chance to do from level one. A NE Commoner ought to have the chance to sneak up behind his neighbor and off him with a well placed iron skillet attack. Basically what I'm saying is that I think the flat-footed condition should be a lot more costly. A swashbuckler can feint all day, but it hardly gets him anywhere except against unarmored, extremely dextrous opponents (not very numerous in Monster Manuals to say the least). Against flat-footed opponents there should be some system of rules that allow anyone the chance to deal extra damage. Sure, the rogue could then be better at catching people flat-footed, and sure the rogue could then just deal more damage above and beyond the standard mechanic presented for everyone, but everyone should be able to do it. Does any of this make sense to anyone but me? No? Just checking...
Aerodyth 09-22-07, 10:01 AM	Sure, the rogue could then be better at catching people flat-footed, and sure the rogue could then just deal more damage above and beyond the standard mechanic presented for everyone, but everyone should be able to do it. The best way to do it that I know of are ToB maneuvers and the Blur Strike weapon ability from Races of the Wild. It doesn't require stealth at all. Walk up, draw, and kill. I like the idea of branching it off of Concentration for the price of a feat.
The_Unseen_Illusion 09-23-07, 05:22 PM	Yeah, I can see what your point is bkdubs. It seems sensible that you would inflict more damage on some that is unaware of you. Maybe its possible to bend a rule that every character has a Suden Strike ability at level 1 that does something like D4 damage. And it would improve at level 10 to do 2D4 damage.