If one is flying, does one make noise? [Archive] - Wizards Community

If one is flying, does one make noise? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bozlewa
03-16-07, 03:09 PM I have a Warlock with the flight invocation. While he is flying does he receive any bonus to his move silently check? For instance, he is "walking" inches above the ground and does not cruch leaves, step in puddles, or even have his feet echo in a hall. Does he still need to make a check?
TygerTyger
03-16-07, 03:13 PM Situational really. I'd say that's a huge bonus to the move silent roll, but he's still breathing, still has a heartbeat, still brushes against things, his cloak still flaps in the wind, etc.
jadehawk
03-16-07, 03:38 PM I don't know if this has ever been covered in D&D, but this is the way I see it. In your case, you are flying by no natural means so I suggest a +4 bonus to move silent checks. However, characters who fly with wings likely make about as much noise as a character on the ground (though they do not take additional penalties in the case of thick underbrush, or walking on glass, or anything else that makes considerable noise), so they should roll as usual.
unusualsuspect
03-16-07, 03:40 PM Given that one of the PHB examples of a 'difficult' listen check involves a owl flying silently towards its prey, I'd say that flying does not, itself, negate the need for move silent, or even necessarily even give you a bonus to Move Silent.

I would say that you could potentially avoid circumstantial penalties (excessive amounts of crispy dry leaves, for example), but that it wouldn't give you any BONUS since the flight spell (or spell-like ability, or natural flying ability) doesn't explicitly give you anything to work with that actually reduces the amount of sound one causes moving about.
Xeviat-DM
03-16-07, 03:41 PM If your flight speed is from a magical source, not wings, I like the idea of a +4 bonus to move silently. On the contrary, having wings and doing things like slowing down or hovering (as opposed to gliding) would make exceptional amounts of noise, much more than someone just standing still or walking would. Things like Owls, though, get huge bonuses.
tarkin
03-16-07, 03:44 PM I would give him a +2, not +4. He is still moving through the air, often fairly fast, and that causes noise.
Vegepygmy
03-16-07, 04:10 PM Given that one of the PHB examples of a 'difficult' listen check involves a owl flying silently towards its prey, I'd say that flying does not, itself, negate the need for move silent, or even necessarily even give you a bonus to Move Silent.This is an excellent point. If you look, there are two important examples given: a "cat stalking" (DC 19) and an "owl gliding in for a kill" (DC 30).

According to the MM, a cat has a Move Silently +6 modifier, and an owl has a Move Silently +17 modifier. Assuming (as we should) that they are taking 10, the DCs in both cases should be 16 and 27 respectively. Both are off by 3, which suggests that there's some other modifier or assumption going on.

But what is relatively clear is that the flying owl gains no special advantage over the non-flying cat as far as Move Silently checks go.
ClementWillowbreaker
03-16-07, 06:39 PM As said above, it should let you avoid some circumstance penalties by letting you move through squares that don't inflict them, but not give bonuses. Just like you don't have to make Balance checks to fly over uneven stone, you don't get penalties for gravel (but you would still get them for rustling undergrowth unless you flew completely over it).
Anguish2
03-16-07, 10:58 PM The point here being - of course - that there are more ways to make noise than simply step on twigs. A character or monster that has a high Move Silently score is trained or instinctively good at not making noise. A person who has a low MS score isn't. While the person with a Move Silently of 2 might fly over some crunchy leaves, he's still got a decent chance of clanking his armor against his side, or accidentally dropping something, or sneezing, or any of a number of other noise-making activities. A MS score to me implies a best-case scenario, much like Hide. Ideally, avoiding crunchy leaves lets you hit your MS. Not avoiding those leaves should give an opponent a bonus to their Listen check to oppose your MS. Similarly, moving around standing upright instead of crawling towards a guard should give that guard a bonus to his Spot check, not nerf your Hide check.

That's just the way I see it. I see things like windstorms as granting penalties to Spot or Listen, instead of granting bonuses to someone's Hide or Move Silently.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bozlewa 03-16-07, 03:09 PM	I have a Warlock with the flight invocation. While he is flying does he receive any bonus to his move silently check? For instance, he is "walking" inches above the ground and does not cruch leaves, step in puddles, or even have his feet echo in a hall. Does he still need to make a check?
TygerTyger 03-16-07, 03:13 PM	Situational really. I'd say that's a huge bonus to the move silent roll, but he's still breathing, still has a heartbeat, still brushes against things, his cloak still flaps in the wind, etc.
jadehawk 03-16-07, 03:38 PM	I don't know if this has ever been covered in D&D, but this is the way I see it. In your case, you are flying by no natural means so I suggest a +4 bonus to move silent checks. However, characters who fly with wings likely make about as much noise as a character on the ground (though they do not take additional penalties in the case of thick underbrush, or walking on glass, or anything else that makes considerable noise), so they should roll as usual.
unusualsuspect 03-16-07, 03:40 PM	Given that one of the PHB examples of a 'difficult' listen check involves a owl flying silently towards its prey, I'd say that flying does not, itself, negate the need for move silent, or even necessarily even give you a bonus to Move Silent. I would say that you could potentially avoid circumstantial penalties (excessive amounts of crispy dry leaves, for example), but that it wouldn't give you any BONUS since the flight spell (or spell-like ability, or natural flying ability) doesn't explicitly give you anything to work with that actually reduces the amount of sound one causes moving about.
Xeviat-DM 03-16-07, 03:41 PM	If your flight speed is from a magical source, not wings, I like the idea of a +4 bonus to move silently. On the contrary, having wings and doing things like slowing down or hovering (as opposed to gliding) would make exceptional amounts of noise, much more than someone just standing still or walking would. Things like Owls, though, get huge bonuses.
tarkin 03-16-07, 03:44 PM	I would give him a +2, not +4. He is still moving through the air, often fairly fast, and that causes noise.
Vegepygmy 03-16-07, 04:10 PM	Given that one of the PHB examples of a 'difficult' listen check involves a owl flying silently towards its prey, I'd say that flying does not, itself, negate the need for move silent, or even necessarily even give you a bonus to Move Silent.This is an excellent point. If you look, there are two important examples given: a "cat stalking" (DC 19) and an "owl gliding in for a kill" (DC 30). According to the MM, a cat has a Move Silently +6 modifier, and an owl has a Move Silently +17 modifier. Assuming (as we should) that they are taking 10, the DCs in both cases should be 16 and 27 respectively. Both are off by 3, which suggests that there's some other modifier or assumption going on. But what is relatively clear is that the flying owl gains no special advantage over the non-flying cat as far as Move Silently checks go.
ClementWillowbreaker 03-16-07, 06:39 PM	As said above, it should let you avoid some circumstance penalties by letting you move through squares that don't inflict them, but not give bonuses. Just like you don't have to make Balance checks to fly over uneven stone, you don't get penalties for gravel (but you would still get them for rustling undergrowth unless you flew completely over it).
Anguish2 03-16-07, 10:58 PM	The point here being - of course - that there are more ways to make noise than simply step on twigs. A character or monster that has a high Move Silently score is trained or instinctively good at not making noise. A person who has a low MS score isn't. While the person with a Move Silently of 2 might fly over some crunchy leaves, he's still got a decent chance of clanking his armor against his side, or accidentally dropping something, or sneezing, or any of a number of other noise-making activities. A MS score to me implies a best-case scenario, much like Hide. Ideally, avoiding crunchy leaves lets you hit your MS. Not avoiding those leaves should give an opponent a bonus to their Listen check to oppose your MS. Similarly, moving around standing upright instead of crawling towards a guard should give that guard a bonus to his Spot check, not nerf your Hide check. That's just the way I see it. I see things like windstorms as granting penalties to Spot or Listen, instead of granting bonuses to someone's Hide or Move Silently.