immunity to mind-affecting effects (need will saves?) [Archive] - Wizards Community

immunity to mind-affecting effects (need will saves?) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Orenmir
05-21-07, 11:36 AM (I wasn't sure where to post this, so please move if needed)

If you are immune to mind-affecting effects (such as Occult Slayer's "Blank Thoughts"), will you ever need to roll a will save again? If so, for what effects?
runestar
05-21-07, 12:47 PM There are some spells which require will saves, but are not mind-affecting in nature (though I cannot recall any off-hand). You will still need to save as per normal for those...:P
Big_Mac
05-21-07, 12:50 PM Potion of Protection from Evil will do the trick pretty well.
Orenmir
05-21-07, 01:04 PM There are some spells which require will saves, but are not mind-affecting in nature (though I cannot recall any off-hand). You will still need to save as per normal for those...:P

Hmmmmm..... Maybe I'll start a thread in the Spells forum and ask what spells those might be.

Potion of Protection from Evil will do the trick pretty well.

Sorry, I think that went right over my head. A Potion of Protection from Evil will do WHAT trick pretty well?
ShinAkuma2
05-21-07, 01:49 PM Many Illusions allow Will saves, but aren't mind-affecting. They directly affect the senses.
Gorbeck
05-21-07, 03:04 PM There are plenty of spells that require a Will save and are not mind effecting. Blasphemy, Chaos Hammer, Word of Chaos, Bestow Curse, Chill Touch, Death Knell, Harm, any of the Inflict Wounds spells, Magic Jar, Soul Bind, Baleful Polymorph, and Slow, just to name a few. These are just from core as well. There's probably plenty more in the Spell Compendium.
Orenmir
05-21-07, 03:28 PM Outstanding.

Many thanks for the lists and replies. That helps a lot.
Deep Blue 9000
05-21-07, 05:31 PM There are a lot of monster abilities that require will saves but don't have the [mind-affecting] descriptor.
navar100
05-21-07, 11:19 PM There's also the dreaded Mordenkainen's Disjunction.
Big_Mac
05-22-07, 09:30 AM Hmmmmm..... Maybe I'll start a thread in the Spells forum and ask what spells those might be.

Sorry, I think that went right over my head. A Potion of Protection from Evil will do WHAT trick pretty well?

Protection from evil protects you from mind spell that try to make you do things you would not do. Spells like Dominate and Charm it gives you a +s on save vs evil cast spells, protects from summoned creatures and +2 deflection AC bonus which does not stack, with other deflection bonuses.

Read the spell description in the PHB or SRD for better details.
Orenmir
05-22-07, 09:37 AM Spells like Dominate and Charm it gives you a +s on save vs evil cast spells,

Aren't Dominate and Charm mind-affecting spells?
Big_Mac
05-22-07, 09:44 AM [QUOTE=Big_Mac;12464107]Spells like Dominate and Charm it gives you a +s on save vs evil cast spells, QUOTE]

Aren't Dominate and Charm mind-affecting spells?

Yes, they are. When you look at the text for the spells it has some criteria about which mind affecting spells it works against (read not immune to all mind effecting spells) it is only a 1st lvl spell.
runestar
05-22-07, 10:12 AM I find that it has a tendency of lulling players into a false sense of security, since not many are aware that prot from evil does not protect you from suggestion...:evillaugh
risner
05-22-07, 01:02 PM Potion of Protection from Evil will do the trick pretty well.

From Evil sources? yes.
Doesn't do anything for Neutral or Good enemies.
Deep Blue 9000
05-23-07, 02:11 AM The protection from charm/compulsion effect of Protection from Evil specifically says that it does not depend on the alignment of the enchanter.
risner
05-23-07, 08:53 PM The protection from charm/compulsion effect of Protection from Evil specifically says that it does not depend on the alignment of the enchanter.

I just re-read the spell and it seems clear to me that you are only warded from mental control from Evil creatures with Protection from Evil.
runestar
05-23-07, 09:37 PM I just re-read the spell and it seems clear to me that you are only warded from mental control from Evil creatures with Protection from Evil.
I beg to differ...because to be honest, I do not see how anyone could have possibly interpret the bolded line in any way but ...:P
Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect. If the protection from evil effect ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature. Likewise, the barrier keeps out a possessing life force but does not expel one if it is in place before the spell is cast. This second effect works regardless of alignment.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Orenmir 05-21-07, 11:36 AM	(I wasn't sure where to post this, so please move if needed) If you are immune to mind-affecting effects (such as Occult Slayer's "Blank Thoughts"), will you ever need to roll a will save again? If so, for what effects?
runestar 05-21-07, 12:47 PM	There are some spells which require will saves, but are not mind-affecting in nature (though I cannot recall any off-hand). You will still need to save as per normal for those...:P
Big_Mac 05-21-07, 12:50 PM	Potion of Protection from Evil will do the trick pretty well.
Orenmir 05-21-07, 01:04 PM	There are some spells which require will saves, but are not mind-affecting in nature (though I cannot recall any off-hand). You will still need to save as per normal for those...:P Hmmmmm..... Maybe I'll start a thread in the Spells forum and ask what spells those might be. Potion of Protection from Evil will do the trick pretty well. Sorry, I think that went right over my head. A Potion of Protection from Evil will do WHAT trick pretty well?
ShinAkuma2 05-21-07, 01:49 PM	Many Illusions allow Will saves, but aren't mind-affecting. They directly affect the senses.
Gorbeck 05-21-07, 03:04 PM	There are plenty of spells that require a Will save and are not mind effecting. Blasphemy, Chaos Hammer, Word of Chaos, Bestow Curse, Chill Touch, Death Knell, Harm, any of the Inflict Wounds spells, Magic Jar, Soul Bind, Baleful Polymorph, and Slow, just to name a few. These are just from core as well. There's probably plenty more in the Spell Compendium.
Orenmir 05-21-07, 03:28 PM	Outstanding. Many thanks for the lists and replies. That helps a lot.
Deep Blue 9000 05-21-07, 05:31 PM	There are a lot of monster abilities that require will saves but don't have the [mind-affecting] descriptor.
navar100 05-21-07, 11:19 PM	There's also the dreaded Mordenkainen's Disjunction.
Big_Mac 05-22-07, 09:30 AM	Hmmmmm..... Maybe I'll start a thread in the Spells forum and ask what spells those might be. Sorry, I think that went right over my head. A Potion of Protection from Evil will do WHAT trick pretty well? Protection from evil protects you from mind spell that try to make you do things you would not do. Spells like Dominate and Charm it gives you a +s on save vs evil cast spells, protects from summoned creatures and +2 deflection AC bonus which does not stack, with other deflection bonuses. Read the spell description in the PHB or SRD for better details.
Orenmir 05-22-07, 09:37 AM	Spells like Dominate and Charm it gives you a +s on save vs evil cast spells, Aren't Dominate and Charm mind-affecting spells?
Big_Mac 05-22-07, 09:44 AM	[QUOTE=Big_Mac;12464107]Spells like Dominate and Charm it gives you a +s on save vs evil cast spells, QUOTE] Aren't Dominate and Charm mind-affecting spells? Yes, they are. When you look at the text for the spells it has some criteria about which mind affecting spells it works against (read not immune to all mind effecting spells) it is only a 1st lvl spell.
runestar 05-22-07, 10:12 AM	I find that it has a tendency of lulling players into a false sense of security, since not many are aware that prot from evil does not protect you from suggestion...:evillaugh
risner 05-22-07, 01:02 PM	Potion of Protection from Evil will do the trick pretty well. From Evil sources? yes. Doesn't do anything for Neutral or Good enemies.
Deep Blue 9000 05-23-07, 02:11 AM	The protection from charm/compulsion effect of Protection from Evil specifically says that it does not depend on the alignment of the enchanter.
risner 05-23-07, 08:53 PM	The protection from charm/compulsion effect of Protection from Evil specifically says that it does not depend on the alignment of the enchanter. I just re-read the spell and it seems clear to me that you are only warded from mental control from Evil creatures with Protection from Evil.
runestar 05-23-07, 09:37 PM	I just re-read the spell and it seems clear to me that you are only warded from mental control from Evil creatures with Protection from Evil. I beg to differ...because to be honest, I do not see how anyone could have possibly interpret the bolded line in any way but ...:P Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person). The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for the duration of the protection from evil effect. If the protection from evil effect ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature. Likewise, the barrier keeps out a possessing life force but does not expel one if it is in place before the spell is cast. This second effect works regardless of alignment.