Improved Bull Rush related Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Improved Bull Rush related Feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Malvoi
04-10-07, 10:35 PM Hey all, new poster here. :cool:

I'm writing because I've been playing around with a solid build for a Goliath Barbarian (who hasn't) I want to play. The thing is, while Frenzied Berserker seems to be the 'logical' choice at most damage and high scale damage production, I have been looking into many of the Improved Bull Rush related feats (Knockback, Rampaging Bull Rush, etc.) and the MWM feats to see if either of those "tree" choices would be better off than 10 levels of FB. Following are my questions I posted to the sage and I thought I would ask the community here.

1) A bull rush is meant to move and (hopefully) more strategically position your opponent correct, for example remove the oppon. from near your allies, etc.?

2) Knockback allows me to make a Bull Rush where if I win the roll I can push my opponent beyond the 5' limit (assuming I beat him by 5 or more) without having moved myself. Is this correct? If so, does that effectively make it like a "baseball player + bat smacking a ball"? Also, if my opponent is knocked back but ends his movement due to another object prior to moving the entire distance, would he take damage?

3) Can I use Knockback in conjunction with Rampaging Bull Rush so that my opponent falls prone at the end of the knockback effect (all prior assumptions)?

4) Can an opponent be bull rushed into another person, my ally or enemy? Can I bull rush an ally into an enemy? Would either of these cases cause us to suffer AoOs from the 2nd or nearby targets within melee range?

5) Can I use Combat Brute - Advancing Blows in conjunction with Knockback and/or Rampaging Bull Rush assuming I initiate a bull rush as part of my charge when I power attack?

6) Finally (I promise), if I am a 10th level Frenzied Berserker so my 2-h wpn P.A. ratio is 4:1, and I use Combat Brute - Momentum Swing, does that mean that my P.A. ratio is now 6:1 as the multiplication rules ask us to take the lower multipliers and subtract 1 from them before adding them?

Thank you for your time.
Malvoi
04-15-07, 12:15 AM I am curious why I was unable to get any feedback from the community. :(

Have these feat questions already been addressed elsewhere? If so, I apologize for redundancy, I had scoured the site before posting and had been unable to find anything on it.

Was there another reason perhaps?
ZocckCastlestorm
04-15-07, 09:19 AM Hi. Here are my answers to your questions;

1) Yes, Bull Rush is exactly a tactical repositioning of a Foe. Be sure to get Shock Trooper for the Directed Bull Rush maneuver.

2) I have no knoledge of the "Knockback Feat". Sorry.

3) Same as # 2.

4) I do not know if you are allowed to do this, but I like the idea! If you are allowed to do this, what is it you want to accomplish- A "Fastball Special" like the X-Men? If so, very cool and creative idea,Malvoi!:cool:

5) Sorry, I still do not know anything about either Knockback Feat, nor about Rampaging Bull Rush, but I'll have to find out. What Book(s) are they in?

6) Sadly, no. Your idea will grant you more Damage Bonus, but it is a straight Damage Addition, not a Popwer Attack Multiplier. Example; Advancing Blows on an Eye-of-Gruumsh, and move him back 15 Feet. That grants you a +3 (+1 per 5 Feet Bull Rushed) on the NEXT ROUND. Sorry, it does not Multiply the Power Attack, but it will help Damage the Foe!
Malvoi
04-15-07, 09:49 AM Thanks for getting back to me Zocck. Both feats are found in Races of Stone, pgs. 142 - 3 respectively.

Knockback - Pre: Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Large or bigger
If you score a hit while you are using the Power Attack feat, you can make a free bull rush attempt against the foe you hit, applying the number by which you reduced your attack roll as a bonus on the opposed Strength check (as well as on the damage you deal). If you hit with a two-handed weapon, you can apply double that number on the opposed Strength check. Unlike standard bull rush attempts, knockback attempts don't provoke attacks of opportunity, and you don't move with the enemy you knock backward.

Rampaging Bull Rush - Pre: I.B.R., rage ability, Large or bigger
While in a rage, you can attempt to knock down any creature that you successfully bull rush (that you push back at least 5 feet with a bull rush). You take a -4 penalty on your Str check to bull rush the opponent, but if you win, the opponent is knocked prone at the end of the bull rush.

So my question is, can I use both feats in conjunction to both knock my opponent away from me and prone in whichever square it lands in?

Shock trooper is an awesome idea but I don't think I can use the directed bull rush ability with knockback as I'm not following my opponent.

Thoughts? :plotting:
jacobi289
04-15-07, 10:19 AM To trigger the knockback, you'd need to do a Charge+Power Attack, whereas for the RBP, you'd need to perform a Charge+Bull Rush.

Since I don't think you can do both a bull rush and power attack as part of a charge, you could only get one effect to happen at a time.

But let me say, Charge + Heedless Charge(Shocktrooper) + Full Power Attack + Knockback = Supreme Ownage

Just make sure you have some sort of large range melee character that makes use of AoOs (such a a spiked chain tripper) to get the best use out of your knockbacks. When you knock someone back 5 squares past the party's spiked chain tripper, he'll feel like a kid in a candy store.
ZocckCastlestorm
04-15-07, 02:37 PM Malvoi, I find myself in complete agreement with jacobi289.(Nice Combo there BTW!)
If you Directed Bull Rush, the big deal is that you can bump the Foe 1 Square to Left or Right.:D So, instead of pushing/Bull Rushing straight ahead, you get to adjust the 'trajectory', if you will, by 1 Square.

Thanks for the Book/Page #'s and Postings of the Feats. I don't have Races of Stone(yet), so I appreciate the info.
Malvoi
04-15-07, 07:33 PM Malvoi, I find myself in complete agreement with jacobi289.(Nice Combo there BTW!)
If you Directed Bull Rush, the big deal is that you can bump the Foe 1 Square to Left or Right.:D So, instead of pushing/Bull Rushing straight ahead, you get to adjust the 'trajectory', if you will, by 1 Square.

Thanks for the Book/Page #'s and Postings of the Feats. I don't have Races of Stone(yet), so I appreciate the info.

Hey guys, I'm glad you are both thinking along the same veins I was! I was looking up all those feats and I was like...wait a minute! Woah! :plotting:

It seems there are so many potential combos to work out of all these, it's great! :bounce:
ZocckCastlestorm
04-15-07, 07:50 PM Glad to help.:angel:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Malvoi 04-10-07, 10:35 PM	Hey all, new poster here. :cool: I'm writing because I've been playing around with a solid build for a Goliath Barbarian (who hasn't) I want to play. The thing is, while Frenzied Berserker seems to be the 'logical' choice at most damage and high scale damage production, I have been looking into many of the Improved Bull Rush related feats (Knockback, Rampaging Bull Rush, etc.) and the MWM feats to see if either of those "tree" choices would be better off than 10 levels of FB. Following are my questions I posted to the sage and I thought I would ask the community here. 1) A bull rush is meant to move and (hopefully) more strategically position your opponent correct, for example remove the oppon. from near your allies, etc.? 2) Knockback allows me to make a Bull Rush where if I win the roll I can push my opponent beyond the 5' limit (assuming I beat him by 5 or more) without having moved myself. Is this correct? If so, does that effectively make it like a "baseball player + bat smacking a ball"? Also, if my opponent is knocked back but ends his movement due to another object prior to moving the entire distance, would he take damage? 3) Can I use Knockback in conjunction with Rampaging Bull Rush so that my opponent falls prone at the end of the knockback effect (all prior assumptions)? 4) Can an opponent be bull rushed into another person, my ally or enemy? Can I bull rush an ally into an enemy? Would either of these cases cause us to suffer AoOs from the 2nd or nearby targets within melee range? 5) Can I use Combat Brute - Advancing Blows in conjunction with Knockback and/or Rampaging Bull Rush assuming I initiate a bull rush as part of my charge when I power attack? 6) Finally (I promise), if I am a 10th level Frenzied Berserker so my 2-h wpn P.A. ratio is 4:1, and I use Combat Brute - Momentum Swing, does that mean that my P.A. ratio is now 6:1 as the multiplication rules ask us to take the lower multipliers and subtract 1 from them before adding them? Thank you for your time.
Malvoi 04-15-07, 12:15 AM	I am curious why I was unable to get any feedback from the community. :( Have these feat questions already been addressed elsewhere? If so, I apologize for redundancy, I had scoured the site before posting and had been unable to find anything on it. Was there another reason perhaps?
ZocckCastlestorm 04-15-07, 09:19 AM	Hi. Here are my answers to your questions; 1) Yes, Bull Rush is exactly a tactical repositioning of a Foe. Be sure to get Shock Trooper for the Directed Bull Rush maneuver. 2) I have no knoledge of the "Knockback Feat". Sorry. 3) Same as # 2. 4) I do not know if you are allowed to do this, but I like the idea! If you are allowed to do this, what is it you want to accomplish- A "Fastball Special" like the X-Men? If so, very cool and creative idea,Malvoi!:cool: 5) Sorry, I still do not know anything about either Knockback Feat, nor about Rampaging Bull Rush, but I'll have to find out. What Book(s) are they in? 6) Sadly, no. Your idea will grant you more Damage Bonus, but it is a straight Damage Addition, not a Popwer Attack Multiplier. Example; Advancing Blows on an Eye-of-Gruumsh, and move him back 15 Feet. That grants you a +3 (+1 per 5 Feet Bull Rushed) on the NEXT ROUND. Sorry, it does not Multiply the Power Attack, but it will help Damage the Foe!
Malvoi 04-15-07, 09:49 AM	Thanks for getting back to me Zocck. Both feats are found in Races of Stone, pgs. 142 - 3 respectively. Knockback - Pre: Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Large or bigger If you score a hit while you are using the Power Attack feat, you can make a free bull rush attempt against the foe you hit, applying the number by which you reduced your attack roll as a bonus on the opposed Strength check (as well as on the damage you deal). If you hit with a two-handed weapon, you can apply double that number on the opposed Strength check. Unlike standard bull rush attempts, knockback attempts don't provoke attacks of opportunity, and you don't move with the enemy you knock backward. Rampaging Bull Rush - Pre: I.B.R., rage ability, Large or bigger While in a rage, you can attempt to knock down any creature that you successfully bull rush (that you push back at least 5 feet with a bull rush). You take a -4 penalty on your Str check to bull rush the opponent, but if you win, the opponent is knocked prone at the end of the bull rush. So my question is, can I use both feats in conjunction to both knock my opponent away from me and prone in whichever square it lands in? Shock trooper is an awesome idea but I don't think I can use the directed bull rush ability with knockback as I'm not following my opponent. Thoughts? :plotting:
jacobi289 04-15-07, 10:19 AM	To trigger the knockback, you'd need to do a Charge+Power Attack, whereas for the RBP, you'd need to perform a Charge+Bull Rush. Since I don't think you can do both a bull rush and power attack as part of a charge, you could only get one effect to happen at a time. But let me say, Charge + Heedless Charge(Shocktrooper) + Full Power Attack + Knockback = Supreme Ownage Just make sure you have some sort of large range melee character that makes use of AoOs (such a a spiked chain tripper) to get the best use out of your knockbacks. When you knock someone back 5 squares past the party's spiked chain tripper, he'll feel like a kid in a candy store.
ZocckCastlestorm 04-15-07, 02:37 PM	Malvoi, I find myself in complete agreement with jacobi289.(Nice Combo there BTW!) If you Directed Bull Rush, the big deal is that you can bump the Foe 1 Square to Left or Right.:D So, instead of pushing/Bull Rushing straight ahead, you get to adjust the 'trajectory', if you will, by 1 Square. Thanks for the Book/Page #'s and Postings of the Feats. I don't have Races of Stone(yet), so I appreciate the info.
Malvoi 04-15-07, 07:33 PM	Malvoi, I find myself in complete agreement with jacobi289.(Nice Combo there BTW!) If you Directed Bull Rush, the big deal is that you can bump the Foe 1 Square to Left or Right.:D So, instead of pushing/Bull Rushing straight ahead, you get to adjust the 'trajectory', if you will, by 1 Square. Thanks for the Book/Page #'s and Postings of the Feats. I don't have Races of Stone(yet), so I appreciate the info. Hey guys, I'm glad you are both thinking along the same veins I was! I was looking up all those feats and I was like...wait a minute! Woah! :plotting: It seems there are so many potential combos to work out of all these, it's great! :bounce:
ZocckCastlestorm 04-15-07, 07:50 PM	Glad to help.:angel: