Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nyulark 02-07-08, 07:00 PM	Well well well, I've got a "simple" question :) my character is a 10 level Dread Necromancer Gnome (size small) ... I choose a Quasit as familiar. His (Su) Alternate form is Wolf (size medium) ... He also got (Ex) the Improved Evasion ... I decided to use my familiar as a Mount (I check twice the Mount's rules and it's ok) ... My question is the following : « if a foe (i.e. dragon, ...) use his breath weapon (Reflex saving throw for Half) against me while i'm on my Mount (in this case, it's my familiar), could I benefit of the (Ex) Improved Evasion of my familiar ?? » For me, the answer is yes because if you're on a horse who can "escape" (he don't fail his Reflex Saving Throw) and don't get hurt by the attack, it's normal that the Mount's Rider don't take the damage too ... What do you think ???
runestar 02-07-08, 07:09 PM	No, only the mount has evasion, not its rider. Maybe think of it as the mount using the rider as a shield...:P
Nyulark 02-07-08, 07:17 PM	No, only the mount has evasion, not its rider. Maybe think of it as the mount using the rider as a shield...:P If you read the description of Evasion and Improved Evasion, the owner of this (Ex) can avoid magical and unusual attacks with great agility ... So the Mount doesn't use the rider as a shield ...
ZiggZagg 02-07-08, 07:25 PM	No, but the mount ducked and the rider was just a little too high up and got caught in it sounds like a good explanation to me
Nyulark 02-07-08, 07:28 PM	No, but the mount ducked and the rider was just a little too high up and got caught in it sounds like a good explanation to me wrong too ... cause the Mount Rules say that a mount and his rider use the same space ... so if it duck/dive/roll/jump/... to escape the attack, the rider "will follow" the motion ...
ZiggZagg 02-07-08, 07:39 PM	LoL ok if you want to point fingers with right and wrong, we can just make this easy. Your mount has the ability. You do not. You are wrong in assuming you get it. You could try to house rule it, but it would be a house rule.
StevenO 02-07-08, 07:57 PM	Sorry to say but you will not benefit from your mounts Evasion/Improved Evasion. That is the RAW. Saying Evasion is due the creature's "great agility" in no way implies that it actually moves out of the area. This great agility may be to put you, the rider, in the way to prevent itself from getting scorched. If you want to look at that agility as finding the "safer" pockets within the AoE there is nothing to say the area is any larger than the creature itself unless you'd like to violate physics and say two opjects can occupy the exact same space and the exact same time.
Legdiwena 02-07-08, 08:02 PM	Maybe make the rider make a DC 10-15 Reflex to stay in saddle when the mount jinks to avoid the attack.
StevenO 02-07-08, 11:01 PM	Maybe make the rider make a DC 10-15 Reflex to stay in saddle when the mount jinks to avoid the attack. If you are going to that I'd make the Ride check DC at least equal to 5 (the "normal" stay in the saddle chech) PLUS the DC of the spell the mount is trying to avoid. That would make the check for avoiding a basic fireball from an INT 16 Wizard DC 21 which is probably a little lower than I'd like; guess the base should be DC 10 + spell DC as skill modifiers go up so much faster than SAVEs.
mplindustries 02-08-08, 04:00 AM	People who are tied up still get reflex saves. Unconcious people still get reflex saves. In both cases they can still benefit from Evasion and Improved Evasion. They are named Evasion, because it helps you remember, but it does not let you "evade the blast" or anything like that. What does evasion do then? Well, when you succeed on a reflex save, you take no damage instead of half. Someguy: But, when you make a reflex save, you're diving for cover right? And dodging the blast? Me: No, you are rolling a d20 and adding your bonus. Someguy: But doesn't that mean you're-- Me: No. Reflex saves are not about dodging. They are an abstract concept that represents a number of things including agility, luck, reaction time, and countless other factors that can be described in game 19857618975619875 different ways. This is why Power Attack can do more damage even though you have a more difficult time hitting hard enough to punch through their armor. Someguy: But power attack means that you're-- Me: STOP ATTACHING FLUFF TO CRUNCH. THEY DON'T GO TOGETHER. MECHANICS ARE ABSOLUTE AND YOU HAVE TO DESCRIBE AROUND THEM. YOU CAN'T CHANGE MECHANICS BECAUSE YOU ARE DESCRIBING IT IN A CERTAIN WAY. Maybe you're describing it wrong. Maybe you suck at life. Any argument that starts with "X represents Y in game, right? So..." is automatically wrong. PS - If it wasn't clear, you get absolutely zero benefit from your mount having evasion, improved evasion, or anything like it. Its your job to explain it so it makes sense, not the system's job to cater to your description.