Improved Familiar Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Improved Familiar Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Werebat
11-08-07, 10:22 PM The text for the Improved Familiar feat reads:

Granted Abilities: In addition to their own special qualities, all familiars grant their masters the Alertness feat, the benefit of an empathic link, and the ability to share spells with the familiar.

This seems to mean that the character who has an Improved Familiar gains the familiar's special qualities as his own -- for example, a sorcerer with an ice mephit familiar gains DR 5/magic, among other things.

Is this true? I always thought that Improved Familiars were lame because they didn't offer any perks like regular familiars do, but this would make them quite cool indeed.

- Ron ^*^
strenoth
11-09-07, 12:33 AM they offer all the abilities that normal familairs do, EXCEPT for the unique little by-animal bonus. you replace the little skill boosts with a rather cool familiar. :)
Werebat
11-09-07, 06:58 AM they offer all the abilities that normal familairs do, EXCEPT for the unique little by-animal bonus. you replace the little skill boosts with a rather cool familiar. :)

Is this officially verified anywhere? Seems hardly worth it to lose both a feat AND the familiar perk in order to get a celestial rat as opposed to a normal one.

To get a mephit, you have to take 7 levels of Wizard (delaying PrC advancement by at least 2 levels) AND spend a feat. AND, if you don't get his SQ, you lose your familiar perk too. Is that really worth it?

Anyway, RAW, it seems that you do indeed get the improved familiar's SQ.

- Ron ^*^
runestar
11-09-07, 07:10 AM Improved familiars don't grant any additional benefits outside of the alertness feat. They are their own benefit - you benefit from having a stronger familiar compared to what you are normally accrued.

That line you quoted is simply the result of awkward phrasing by designers with sub-par english. Don't bother looking for gold in bad editing.

I wouldn't call them weak. Many of them have very useful abilities that easily justify the cost of a feat.

For example, the imp and quasit have detect magic at will and can use commune 1/week. They can also use invis at will and can fly, and so make decent scouts.

Pseudodragon has blindsense, and can communicate telepathically with the whole party, and thus makes a fair spotter, especially vs invis foes.

Not sure what the formain worker and stirge are good for. Shocker lizard might be useful if your party has a shambling mould somehow, keep shocking it for con increases...:P
BW0222
11-09-07, 08:23 AM Werebat,

Anyway, RAW, it seems that you do indeed get the improved familiar's SQ.

The section on familiars is clear. No where does it say that master gains any special abilities from the familiar itself. A normal rat does not provide master with scent, low-light vision, darkvision, etc. or any other ability which a rat or magical beast has. Similiarly, a celestial rat does not provide master with any DR, SR, or other abilities.

Is this officially verified anywhere?

Rules don't work in the negative. The familiar rules say what the familiar provides. They don't have to list everything that it doesn't provide.

Is that really worth it?

Yes. It is worth it.

Since normal familiars have only half their masters hit points, and wizards and sorcerors have so few to start with, most wizards need to keep their familiars in their pouches or otherwise safely hidden. Sending them out on scouting missions, to send messages, to deliver touch spells, etc. is insanely dangerous. A hawk familiar flying over an orc camp suddenly gets six arrows fired at her. A rat familiar outside someone's window gets detected and hit by a pair of scorching rays. Honestly, normal familiars are pretty much pouch pets -- far too fragile to send out into the real world.

However, improved familiars have a lot of advantages. A celestial or friendish familiar has DR, SR, and elemental resistances. Suddenly the celestial hawk can scout the orc camp and normal arrows aren't going to kill it. The fiendish rat has SR and fire resistance against the scorching rays. Such creatures are far more survivable in scouting, spying, or (if necessary) combat missions.

And yes, the mephit is worth it.
* It has DR and fast healing. So, it can be used on scouting and spying missions without being killed by normal arrows or weapons.
* Its breath weapon and spell-like abilities make it reasonably effective against lesser stuff even in combats -- either while scouting/spying or to delay normal stuff in combats.
* With a humaniod body, it is capable of manipulating objects and speaking. Since it also has all your skill ranks... that means it can help with crafting, forgery, knowledge checks, etc.
* It can fetch items which normal familiars can't, open chests, carry loads, wear armor, use magical items, etc. It can carry and drink potions. It can administer potions to fallen PCs. There is a big difference between a bat familiar and a flying air mephit dropping flasks of acid on folks without ranged attacks.
* It can summon another mephit. This is useful for distractions, trap triggering, or even combat against lesser foes.

So, yes it is certainly worth a feat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Werebat 11-08-07, 10:22 PM	The text for the Improved Familiar feat reads: Granted Abilities: In addition to their own special qualities, all familiars grant their masters the Alertness feat, the benefit of an empathic link, and the ability to share spells with the familiar. This seems to mean that the character who has an Improved Familiar gains the familiar's special qualities as his own -- for example, a sorcerer with an ice mephit familiar gains DR 5/magic, among other things. Is this true? I always thought that Improved Familiars were lame because they didn't offer any perks like regular familiars do, but this would make them quite cool indeed. - Ron ^*^
strenoth 11-09-07, 12:33 AM	they offer all the abilities that normal familairs do, EXCEPT for the unique little by-animal bonus. you replace the little skill boosts with a rather cool familiar. :)
Werebat 11-09-07, 06:58 AM	they offer all the abilities that normal familairs do, EXCEPT for the unique little by-animal bonus. you replace the little skill boosts with a rather cool familiar. :) Is this officially verified anywhere? Seems hardly worth it to lose both a feat AND the familiar perk in order to get a celestial rat as opposed to a normal one. To get a mephit, you have to take 7 levels of Wizard (delaying PrC advancement by at least 2 levels) AND spend a feat. AND, if you don't get his SQ, you lose your familiar perk too. Is that really worth it? Anyway, RAW, it seems that you do indeed get the improved familiar's SQ. - Ron ^*^
runestar 11-09-07, 07:10 AM	Improved familiars don't grant any additional benefits outside of the alertness feat. They are their own benefit - you benefit from having a stronger familiar compared to what you are normally accrued. That line you quoted is simply the result of awkward phrasing by designers with sub-par english. Don't bother looking for gold in bad editing. I wouldn't call them weak. Many of them have very useful abilities that easily justify the cost of a feat. For example, the imp and quasit have detect magic at will and can use commune 1/week. They can also use invis at will and can fly, and so make decent scouts. Pseudodragon has blindsense, and can communicate telepathically with the whole party, and thus makes a fair spotter, especially vs invis foes. Not sure what the formain worker and stirge are good for. Shocker lizard might be useful if your party has a shambling mould somehow, keep shocking it for con increases...:P
BW0222 11-09-07, 08:23 AM	Werebat, Anyway, RAW, it seems that you do indeed get the improved familiar's SQ. The section on familiars is clear. No where does it say that master gains any special abilities from the familiar itself. A normal rat does not provide master with scent, low-light vision, darkvision, etc. or any other ability which a rat or magical beast has. Similiarly, a celestial rat does not provide master with any DR, SR, or other abilities. Is this officially verified anywhere? Rules don't work in the negative. The familiar rules say what the familiar provides. They don't have to list everything that it doesn't provide. Is that really worth it? Yes. It is worth it. Since normal familiars have only half their masters hit points, and wizards and sorcerors have so few to start with, most wizards need to keep their familiars in their pouches or otherwise safely hidden. Sending them out on scouting missions, to send messages, to deliver touch spells, etc. is insanely dangerous. A hawk familiar flying over an orc camp suddenly gets six arrows fired at her. A rat familiar outside someone's window gets detected and hit by a pair of scorching rays. Honestly, normal familiars are pretty much pouch pets -- far too fragile to send out into the real world. However, improved familiars have a lot of advantages. A celestial or friendish familiar has DR, SR, and elemental resistances. Suddenly the celestial hawk can scout the orc camp and normal arrows aren't going to kill it. The fiendish rat has SR and fire resistance against the scorching rays. Such creatures are far more survivable in scouting, spying, or (if necessary) combat missions. And yes, the mephit is worth it. * It has DR and fast healing. So, it can be used on scouting and spying missions without being killed by normal arrows or weapons. * Its breath weapon and spell-like abilities make it reasonably effective against lesser stuff even in combats -- either while scouting/spying or to delay normal stuff in combats. * With a humaniod body, it is capable of manipulating objects and speaking. Since it also has all your skill ranks... that means it can help with crafting, forgery, knowledge checks, etc. * It can fetch items which normal familiars can't, open chests, carry loads, wear armor, use magical items, etc. It can carry and drink potions. It can administer potions to fallen PCs. There is a big difference between a bat familiar and a flying air mephit dropping flasks of acid on folks without ranged attacks. * It can summon another mephit. This is useful for distractions, trap triggering, or even combat against lesser foes. So, yes it is certainly worth a feat.