Improved Force of Personality? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Improved Force of Personality? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AnonymousInternets
09-15-07, 02:36 PM I was considering adding to Force of Personality (CAd) by introducing a feat that required it that made the ability score modifier change apply to all Will Saves, in the hopes of making Cha close to being on par with Wis, and so that spontaneous casters could at least have one advantage over wizards (though at the cost of 2 feats). What do you think?
Novacat
09-15-07, 03:57 PM I was considering adding to Force of Personality (CAd) by introducing a feat that required it that made the ability score modifier change apply to all Will Saves, in the hopes of making Cha close to being on par with Wis, and so that spontaneous casters could at least have one advantage over wizards (though at the cost of 2 feats). What do you think?
Doesn't Force of Personality already apply to all Will Saves?
AnonymousInternets
09-15-07, 05:37 PM I used to believe that, based on the short descriptions in the feat table, but if you read the description, it actually only applies to Mind-affecting spells and Sp's, which doesn't include a lot of necromancy-based will save spells, in addition to various other things.
Novabomb
09-15-07, 06:23 PM Casters would almost never waste a feat to improve their will saves, much less two. (Casters already have good will saves, why would they waste two feats to improve it further) The only classes that would benefit reasonably from the feat would be charismatic non-casters. There are very few combinations that would benefit from the ability enough to invest one feat even.
AnonymousInternets
09-15-07, 06:29 PM Do you think I should just buff Force of Personality to the improved version?
Novabomb
09-15-07, 06:45 PM I would, its by no means overpowered as not many builds can benefit from it in the first place.
dman11235
09-15-07, 07:01 PM That's how I do it.
Chimaera2000
09-15-07, 07:11 PM One way of putting Charisma on par with the other stats is to house-rule Charisma as the key stat for Will saves and Wisdom as the key stat for Initiative. If you're using the action points variant (Unearthed Arcana, Eberron Campaign Setting), you could have Charisma add to the number of action points gained per level instead.
AnonymousInternets
09-15-07, 07:19 PM I don't want to change fundamentals that drastically.

I don't use action points, but to be honest, I've barely read much about it. I'll probably read through it all soon. :0
Novacat
09-16-07, 04:02 AM In most cases, a character's CHA modifier is not going to be more than 2-3 higher than their WIS modifier. In that case, Force of Personality, as written, is either as powerful or less powerful than Iron Will, which adds +2 to Will saves regardless your stats. I see no reason not to modify Force of Personality to apply to all Will Saves.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AnonymousInternets 09-15-07, 02:36 PM	I was considering adding to Force of Personality (CAd) by introducing a feat that required it that made the ability score modifier change apply to all Will Saves, in the hopes of making Cha close to being on par with Wis, and so that spontaneous casters could at least have one advantage over wizards (though at the cost of 2 feats). What do you think?
Novacat 09-15-07, 03:57 PM	I was considering adding to Force of Personality (CAd) by introducing a feat that required it that made the ability score modifier change apply to all Will Saves, in the hopes of making Cha close to being on par with Wis, and so that spontaneous casters could at least have one advantage over wizards (though at the cost of 2 feats). What do you think? Doesn't Force of Personality already apply to all Will Saves?
AnonymousInternets 09-15-07, 05:37 PM	I used to believe that, based on the short descriptions in the feat table, but if you read the description, it actually only applies to Mind-affecting spells and Sp's, which doesn't include a lot of necromancy-based will save spells, in addition to various other things.
Novabomb 09-15-07, 06:23 PM	Casters would almost never waste a feat to improve their will saves, much less two. (Casters already have good will saves, why would they waste two feats to improve it further) The only classes that would benefit reasonably from the feat would be charismatic non-casters. There are very few combinations that would benefit from the ability enough to invest one feat even.
AnonymousInternets 09-15-07, 06:29 PM	Do you think I should just buff Force of Personality to the improved version?
Novabomb 09-15-07, 06:45 PM	I would, its by no means overpowered as not many builds can benefit from it in the first place.
dman11235 09-15-07, 07:01 PM	That's how I do it.
Chimaera2000 09-15-07, 07:11 PM	One way of putting Charisma on par with the other stats is to house-rule Charisma as the key stat for Will saves and Wisdom as the key stat for Initiative. If you're using the action points variant (Unearthed Arcana, Eberron Campaign Setting), you could have Charisma add to the number of action points gained per level instead.
AnonymousInternets 09-15-07, 07:19 PM	I don't want to change fundamentals that drastically. I don't use action points, but to be honest, I've barely read much about it. I'll probably read through it all soon. :0
Novacat 09-16-07, 04:02 AM	In most cases, a character's CHA modifier is not going to be more than 2-3 higher than their WIS modifier. In that case, Force of Personality, as written, is either as powerful or less powerful than Iron Will, which adds +2 to Will saves regardless your stats. I see no reason not to modify Force of Personality to apply to all Will Saves.