Improved Natural Weapon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Improved Natural Weapon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kyryc1780
03-18-07, 10:14 AM I'm playing a Skarn Monk (using racial substitution levels in magic of Incarnum), so needless to say I'm going to have increased Spine damage. I was also planning on taking the Improved Natural Weapon feat, which would, at first level, increase my Spine damage to 1d8. My question is, at 4th level when a Monk's unarmed damage increases to 1d8, would the feat stack with the monk levels and increase my damage to 1d10 (i think, MM not here right now), or would the feat be washed out by the class ability?
runestar
03-18-07, 10:19 AM Yes. You are merely treated as 1 size larger for determining damage, rather than accorded a fixed damage value for your unarmed strikes. When your unarmed damage increases, INA scales with it accordingly.:)
tarkin
03-18-07, 11:14 AM 1. The feat Improved Natural Attack is weapon specific. You must choose (Spine) or (gore) or (claw), etc.

2. Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) does work. It improves your unarmed strike from 1d3 to 1d4, if you are not a monk.

3. Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) does stack with monk increases. At first level, it moves your damage from 1d6 to 1d8 (if medium sized).

4.You can NOT use Monk damage improvements or Monk Flurry with natural weapons. You can not flurry with your Spine weapon, nor does the fact that you are a monk increase the damage done by your Spine weapon.

5. Instead, your Spine and other weapons can be used as additional, secondary attacks in the same round that you make your monk based flurry. (They count as secondary even if they are normally a 'primary' weapon.
Kyryc1780
03-18-07, 12:14 PM I'm using the racial substitution levels for a Skarn Monk, and at First level, Spine Strike replaces Unarmed Strike. It says right in the book that my Spines act as if they were my Unarmed weapons for purposes of increased damage, flurry, and ki strikes. So yea, I can use them as if they were unarmed
ShinAkuma2
03-18-07, 01:03 PM 4.You can NOT use Monk damage improvements or Monk Flurry with natural weapons. You can not flurry with your Spine weapon, nor does the fact that you are a monk increase the damage done by your Spine weapon.

Wow, way to totally ignore the first sentence of his post.
tarkin
03-18-07, 01:12 PM Dupe Post. Sorry.
tarkin
03-18-07, 01:15 PM Actually it should be:

Wow, way to to totally not play with Skarn and miss a special Skarn rule.

--------

That said, I have rarely seen situations where playing the way he described is to his benefit.

Generally, for monk type players, it is better to take the extra attacks as secondary then to get a relatively minor increase in damage.
ShinAkuma2
03-18-07, 03:00 PM Actually it should be:

Wow, way to to totally not play with Skarn and miss a special Skarn rule.

I've never even heard of Skarn before, yet I was able to figure out the situation due to context. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kyryc1780 03-18-07, 10:14 AM	I'm playing a Skarn Monk (using racial substitution levels in magic of Incarnum), so needless to say I'm going to have increased Spine damage. I was also planning on taking the Improved Natural Weapon feat, which would, at first level, increase my Spine damage to 1d8. My question is, at 4th level when a Monk's unarmed damage increases to 1d8, would the feat stack with the monk levels and increase my damage to 1d10 (i think, MM not here right now), or would the feat be washed out by the class ability?
runestar 03-18-07, 10:19 AM	Yes. You are merely treated as 1 size larger for determining damage, rather than accorded a fixed damage value for your unarmed strikes. When your unarmed damage increases, INA scales with it accordingly.:)
tarkin 03-18-07, 11:14 AM	1. The feat Improved Natural Attack is weapon specific. You must choose (Spine) or (gore) or (claw), etc. 2. Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) does work. It improves your unarmed strike from 1d3 to 1d4, if you are not a monk. 3. Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) does stack with monk increases. At first level, it moves your damage from 1d6 to 1d8 (if medium sized). 4.You can NOT use Monk damage improvements or Monk Flurry with natural weapons. You can not flurry with your Spine weapon, nor does the fact that you are a monk increase the damage done by your Spine weapon. 5. Instead, your Spine and other weapons can be used as additional, secondary attacks in the same round that you make your monk based flurry. (They count as secondary even if they are normally a 'primary' weapon.
Kyryc1780 03-18-07, 12:14 PM	I'm using the racial substitution levels for a Skarn Monk, and at First level, Spine Strike replaces Unarmed Strike. It says right in the book that my Spines act as if they were my Unarmed weapons for purposes of increased damage, flurry, and ki strikes. So yea, I can use them as if they were unarmed
ShinAkuma2 03-18-07, 01:03 PM	4.You can NOT use Monk damage improvements or Monk Flurry with natural weapons. You can not flurry with your Spine weapon, nor does the fact that you are a monk increase the damage done by your Spine weapon. Wow, way to totally ignore the first sentence of his post.
tarkin 03-18-07, 01:12 PM	Dupe Post. Sorry.
tarkin 03-18-07, 01:15 PM	Actually it should be: Wow, way to to totally not play with Skarn and miss a special Skarn rule. -------- That said, I have rarely seen situations where playing the way he described is to his benefit. Generally, for monk type players, it is better to take the extra attacks as secondary then to get a relatively minor increase in damage.
ShinAkuma2 03-18-07, 03:00 PM	Actually it should be: Wow, way to to totally not play with Skarn and miss a special Skarn rule. I've never even heard of Skarn before, yet I was able to figure out the situation due to context. Ignorance is not an excuse.